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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Immigration reform and Xenophobia. (Read 5904 times)
keauxbi
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Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Jan 29th, 2013 at 6:11pm
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I'm drawing a blank here, but can anyone give me a good explanation as to why the federal government has created a monopoly on immigration regulation? 

To me it honestly doesn't make any sense.  The immigration issues of Texas are not the same as those of California, nor New York nor Nebraska.  Yet the federal puppet masters have seized the sole responsibility and promptly created a system where breaking the law is the norm.

Secondly why are we so concerned with keeping people out?  It is already against the law for non-citizen residents to receive federal benefits (apart form Obamacare), only citizens can vote and we punish criminals accordingly.  Shouldn't we just assume, as a "christian" nation, the best in people and expect that they will come here, obey our laws and make their own way in the world?
  

Keauxbi
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Awesome
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 8:13pm
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From my experience, neo-cons most frequently use the argument that the immigrants will "take away our jobs." I understand this is silly because with more people willing to work in the labor force, it becomes easier to start a business. It is true, however, that with the current regulations, an increase in the working class can be bad.

Another one of the arguments they fall for is that the immigrants can be criminals and that they can be importing drugs. These arguments are especially misleading because it's like saying that we should prevent people from being born since they can end up being criminals or drug dealers.

Another argument I have heard is that letting "illegal" immigrants in would be showing that we aren't strong enough to follow our own law and we have to change it because we can't deal with it. This is, of course, BS, but neo-cons, you know...

Another factor that causes hate towards immigrant is the belief that if immigrants are allowed in, it would mean that there should be special government programs for them. This is an example of an American binary fallacy that every policy has to be either the liberal version or the conservative version. For example, with gay marriage, people tend to think that the government should either intervene into private bedrooms or give all gay "couples" marriage benefits. It is also annoying how if you disagree with a liberal on something, they assume that you are a neo-con and that you support the wars and that you hate gays and Mexicans. While if you disagree with a neo-con, they assume that you support Obamacare and gun control.
  

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The Free Man
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2013 at 8:20pm
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Immigration generally is good, as long as the government isn't handing out welfare checks to these immigrants. But in the case of the United Kingdom, immigration isn't such a good thing. People like the English Defense League have a legitimate cause as The UK literally is being invaded by muslims who have a hatred for western culture and protest freedoms. London will soon be Londonistan if this isn't stopped.
  
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Bourgeois
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #3 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 2:23am
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I am fine with immigration in a libertarian society, but because of the state, it is not economically feasible. I'm not saying the state should completely restrict borders, but, if it is to have open borders, then it must not be handing out welfare, as Free Man said. To me closed borders + less welfare makes more sense than open borders + more welfare. There are so many immigrants that the division of wealth in welfare proframmes will be extremely intensified, and there will be a lot of tension on the system.

So in order of my preferences, from best to worst scenario:

(1). No State, and private landowners determine who is allowed to cross where (and for whatever reason such as cheap labour).

(2). Open borders + no welfare to immigrants (unlikely to happen)

(3). Closed borders + no welfare to immigrants

(4). Open borders with rampant welfare issues and redistribution of wealth from the original population. (It's not a small amount of people).
  

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Tom Palven
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #4 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 7:59am
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The US is going backwards with borders. The border stations between France and Germany, which fought a lot of bloody wars, are now closed, and there are signs saying Welcome to France, Welcome to Germany.  Here in the US you used to be able to drive freely between the US, Canada and Mexico, but now you go through a lot of bullshit.

The only property I want to protect in central North America is my house.  If a Mexican, Canadian, or Iraqi, for that matter, want to occupy it, they have to pay me enough money for it, and then maybe I'll move to Ireland or the south of France, where my nephew just took a job with Grumman.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #5 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 10:33am
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Can illegal immigrants get Welfare?  I'm fine with the U.S. taking in some of the world's poor so long as they are self sufficient.  We already have too many people mooching off the government as it is.  We need more productive people.
  
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Steve in VC
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #6 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 12:10pm
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I see several issues with "no borders".  (Of course, the Democrat's and Republican's have a defacto open border policy).

We currently have about 5% of the population of Mexico here illegally.  5% of the worlds population would be 300M - doubling the US population.  Can we assimilate that many people in 1 year, 5 years, 10?

Given a choice, why wouldn't we give preferential treatment to those that would augment the US economy?  If so, then the borders can't just be open.

Would the open border be recipricated?

How do you prevent countries from shipping their undesirables here?  Or criminals from coming on their own, figuring we are rich and easy picking.
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #7 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 1:10pm
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Steve in VC wrote on Jan 30th, 2013 at 12:10pm:
I see several issues with "no borders".  (Of course, the Democrat's and Republican's have a defacto open border policy).

We currently have about 5% of the population of Mexico here illegally.  5% of the worlds population would be 300M - doubling the US population.  Can we assimilate that many people in 1 year, 5 years, 10?

Given a choice, why wouldn't we give preferential treatment to those that would augment the US economy?  If so, then the borders can't just be open.

Would the open border be recipricated?

How do you prevent countries from shipping their undesirables here?  Or criminals from coming on their own, figuring we are rich and easy picking.


I imagine that France, Germany, and Holland had questions like that before they totally opened their borders, perhaps especially with Holland's druggies, but now the undesirables and the desirables can go back and forth as they please without the expense of a DEA bureaucracy and border guards.
  
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Steve in VC
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #8 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 1:39pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Jan 30th, 2013 at 1:10pm:
I imagine that France, Germany, and Holland had questions like that before they totally opened their borders, perhaps especially with Holland's druggies, but now the undesirables and the desirables can go back and forth as they please without the expense of a DEA bureaucracy and border guards.
Not exactly "open borders" if you are from a 3rd world country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

http://www.expatica.com/nl/essentials_moving_to/essentials/Dutch-immigration-and...

http://www.frenchlaw.com/Immigration_Visas.htm
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #9 - Jan 30th, 2013 at 3:00pm
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Right now the U.S. population is about 320 million.  At what number should we start worrying about overpopulation?
  
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