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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Immigration reform and Xenophobia. (Read 5901 times)
Liberalterian
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #50 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:17pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:41am:
The first tax reform we need is for Congress to impose the taxation necessary to fund the expendatures they authorize. If the American People can't afford the taxes then Congress will need to reduce the expendatures but there is no excuse for Congress not meeting it's fiscal responsibility to fund expendatures.

There has been no justification for even one dime of deficit spending since WW II.


Nah, just cut spending until you have a surplus. There's no reason to raise taxes at all.
  
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keauxbi
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #51 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 1:27pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:41am:
The first tax reform we need is for Congress to impose the taxation necessary to fund the expendatures they authorize. If the American People can't afford the taxes then Congress will need to reduce the expendatures but there is no excuse for Congress not meeting it's fiscal responsibility to fund expendatures.

There has been no justification for even one dime of deficit spending since WW II.


There's no excuse for Congress to create any expenditure that it can't pay for. 

It is not nor will it ever be a revenue problem, it is and always will be a spending problem.

Say we eliminate ICE and the border patrol, reform immigration.  You could raise revenue while cutting spending at the same time.  Say we create a designation called non-citizen residents.  The effective income tax rate is 20% plus the normal SSI/Medicare rates.  There are no deductions for non-citizen residents.  IRS would be required to verify/enforce the NCR's.  This would be new revenue to the system.  Also without the expense of employees, benefits, departments, overhead, etc., it would result in a substantial reduction in yearly deficits.  Unless we are to assume that people not born in this country are dirty, stupid and evil. Wink
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2013 at 5:47pm by keauxbi »  

Keauxbi
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Liberalterian
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #52 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 2:31pm
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keauxbi wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 1:27pm:
There's not excuse for Congress to create any expenditure that it can't pay for. 

It is not nor will it ever be a revenue problem, it is and always will be a spending problem.

Say we eliminate ICE and the border patrol, reform immigration.  You could raise revenue while cutting spending at the same time.  Say we create a designation called non-citizen residents.  The effective income tax rate is 20% plus the normal SSI/Medicare rates.  There are no deductions for non-citizen residents.  IRS would be required to verify/enforce the NCR's.  This would be new revenue to the system.  Also without the expense of employees, benefits, departments, overhead, etc., it would result in a substantial reduction in yearly deficits.  Unless we are to assume that people not born in this country are dirty, stupid and evil. Wink

In the game Rulers of Nations this is basically the first thing I always do. I get rid of any immigration police and give residency status to every immigrant that wishes it. As a result I can cut spending efficiently whilst raising tax revenues from the (now legal) immigrants.  Smiley
  
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Libertarian For Our Future
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Re: Immigration reform and Xenophobia.
Reply #53 - Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:38pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:35am:
It is true that "welfare" and "immigration" are two completely different issues. Of note it is a Republican myth that people immigrate to the United States to take advantage of our welfare programs. There is no question that they do use those welfare programs but that is NOT their reason for immigrating to the United States. Overwhelmingly they're coming here for work and the American Dream. This myth is similiar the the "anchor baby" myth propagated by Republicans. Immigrants don't come to the United States to have babies because they will become US Citizens based upon the inalienable Right of Citizenship based upon jus soli as defined and protected by the 14th Amendment. Anadotal exceptions don't count because they are so rare as to be statistically insignificant.

Whether we want to put numbers onto the equation is a moot point. Even if ONE illegal immigrant is using the system, it's a failed system. Why? That one person is collecting money off a system that is paid by tax payers. I'm funding them to come across illegally and obtain money from our economy. At no point in time is this 'OK', is it fair, or is legal for this to happen. Whatever reason folks come here illegally, they shouldn't even be given that opportunity.

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Unskilled immigrants provide low cost labor and we actually have a significant shortage of unskilled low cost labor.

If that's the true case, then why are companies going to Congress asking for the ability to hire folks from overseas as they can't fill those high tech positions. I don't buy into that fallacy one bit. If they are providing a service that everyday American citizens can't, then there should be plenty enough high end jobs that can be filled by American's. If not, again, there is no validity to that argument as American's need jobs first before hiring illegal workers.

Regardless of how you go about this, there is still a drain on the economy and a void that needs to be filled. If an estimated 89 million folks are currently on food stamps, if we deduct the high total of about 12 million illegal immigrants from that, we're talking about 77 million people on food stamps. Whether we want to take a percentage of that and say they are supplementing their pay with it or they just aren't working is completely up to you. The bottom line is roughly ~77 million American citizens are on food stamps. If folks need jobs to help pay for things they need, there is no need for illegal workers as we have a enough people out of work to fill those voids. The issue is they will hire undocumented workers because they are less costly to their bottom line. Shut down businesses who hire undocumented workers, put American citizens into those roles, and America will become better because of it.

Now to help this cause with the minimum wage, corporate tax, tariffs, and the many other things, that's a different thread altogether. Smiley
  
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