Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) PRAYING VERSUS ACTING (Read 2200 times)
Ludwik
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 28
Location: Fort Lee, NJ, USA
Joined: Dec 29th, 2011
PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Feb 2nd, 2013 at 9:40pm
Print Post  
The following advice is from a prayer book:

"Pray as if everything depended upon God, act as if everything depended on you."

I think that this is consistent with the idea of NOMA, formulated by the biologist Stephen Gould. We exist in the material world; God exists in the spiritual world.

The context in which the idea of NOMA was formulated is summarized in my article about futile conflicts between theists and atheists:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/theo/atheist.html
  

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html,
based on a diary I kept between 1946 and 2004, in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Crystallas
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2060
Location: R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution
Joined: May 4th, 2011
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #1 - Feb 2nd, 2013 at 11:52pm
Print Post  
What does this have to do with libertarianism?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Free Man
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 290
Location: New Hampshire
Joined: Feb 26th, 2012
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #2 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 9:05am
Print Post  
How many threads like this have we had? 5+ ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RubyHypatia
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1511
Location: Greer, SC
Joined: May 12th, 2011
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #3 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 3:12pm
Print Post  
The spiritual world is myth, created by human imagination.  Now I'm curious.  I wonder how big of a presence unbelievers have in the libertarian population.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bourgeois
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Counterrevolutionary
, Principle Foe of Dennis

Posts: 4105
Location: Montana
Joined: Apr 9th, 2011
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #4 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 4:13pm
Print Post  
RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 3:12pm:
The spiritual world is myth, created by human imagination. Now I'm curious. I wonder how big of a presence unbelievers have in the libertarian population.

Many libertarians are agnostics (like me) or atheists (like Josh). From my experience, Christian or religious libertarians are the minority.

That is only anecdotal evidence, but I find it to largely hold true.
  

"The government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples."

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
flipswitch
Libertarian Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 28th, 2012
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2013 at 3:38pm
Print Post  
Th denial of a "spiritual world' is a plague sweeping the world.

It seems as though having Iphones and Video games consoles have turned people into all knowing rationalizers disguised as pragmatists.

People without faith are usually weak and fall apart at the seems at the first sign of true horror.  With this influx in technology, they then embed themselves into their computer as to not feel what they can't handle.

Some people without faith are typically what I regard as the "temper-tantrainiacs" who didn't get what they wanted in life, so they "show god" by denouncing him. 

Others are just laid back, dont care to discuss the afterlife, and people who do do not bother them.



Here's a good article on the subject: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9597345/Afterlife-exi...
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
bonfire
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 283
Joined: Apr 17th, 2012
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 2:23am
Print Post  
flipswitch wrote on Feb 4th, 2013 at 3:38pm:
Th denial of a "spiritual world' is a plague sweeping the world.

It seems as though having Iphones and Video games consoles have turned people into all knowing rationalizers disguised as pragmatists.

People without faith are usually weak and fall apart at the seems at the first sign of true horror. With this influx in technology, they then embed themselves into their computer as to not feel what they can't handle.

Some people without faith are typically what I regard as the "temper-tantrainiacs" who didn't get what they wanted in life, so they "show god" by denouncing him.

Others are just laid back, dont care to discuss the afterlife, and people who do do not bother them.



Here's a good article on the subject: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9597345/Afterlife-exi...


can't tell if trolling
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
flipswitch
Libertarian Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 66
Joined: Dec 28th, 2012
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 7:16am
Print Post  
I cant tell if you know I am not trolling but disguise your insults in questions.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
RubyHypatia
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1511
Location: Greer, SC
Joined: May 12th, 2011
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #8 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 9:14am
Print Post  
Why should I believe in a spiritual world when there is not one iota of evidence for it?  Should I believe in Astrology as well?  Reincarnation?  Demons?  I'm not going to believe in ideas that are merely creations of human imagination.  Like Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Libertarian For Our Future
Libertarians Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 236
Joined: Dec 12th, 2012
Re: PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Reply #9 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 2:24pm
Print Post  
Why is this always a discussion in the Libertarian portion of the forum? For the sake of this discussion, I read the article. I'm not completely sure the direction the author is trying to go at but let me add my logic to this discussion.

While some people get reality distorted and begin to forget who/where they are, I don't believe this holds true for all aspects. What I mean by that is by limiting logic down to material & spiritual, I think we lose focus on what folks are really like. What I mean by that is, going with flip's description, just because folks love their iPhone's or video game consoles, doesn't mean that they are consumed by materialistic realities.

I, for one, love my video games & PC's. I've owned a Windows phone & iPhone, I currently own an Android. Why? Because I love technology and I'm a dork, what other reason could there be? However, I'm not lost in the simple fact of believing in a 'God'. When I say that, I believe in a being above & beyond me. Whether or not you can scientifically or mathematically prove me right/wrong, it won't falter my own beliefs. I also disagree that folks who don't have faith, denounce God because they didn't get what they want. I'm not saying that this isn't always the case, the same can be said that everyone abuses welfare for their own gain. Not everyone views it in such a way, to generalize it is just wrong. Furthermore, I disagree with anyone trying to push their faith/beliefs onto another person. You believe in what you feel is real to you, as I wish to do the same as well.

To answer your question, Ruby, if you should believe in something, my own personal belief is that it's up to the individual to believe in what they should believe. No one person should tell another what they should believe in. I believe in astrology as some of the things do hold true to who I am (Scorpio is my sign). I'm not sure if I believe in reincarnation. However, my stance on it is I want to leave something for my children and my children's children so they can live their lives the way they want to. In the end, if there is some sort of reincarnation that we are all capable of being apart of, I want to ensure that we all have the capability of being apart of it. Since I don't know if it's true or not, I'd rather give myself the chance to be apart of it than not at all.

Demons has been confused for some time now. While I don't believe there is such a thing as the devil or some other demonic figure like that, I believe that everyone has their own inner demons they fight everyday. I'm not talking about exorcism or anything of that nature, I'm merely talking about inner turmoils people wage within themselves. For instance, I have a tattoo of a dragon & tiger fighting each other. To me, it symbolizes good & evil fighting against each other. Neither one ever truly wins out but, together, they form who I am as a person.

So to say I believe in demons (Spiritual, mystical beings) is a bit far fetched. However, I do believe folks (Maybe not everyone, but some do) fight some sort of 'demon' within themselves. However you want to classify it, evil, dark stranger, 'weird' feelings, bad feelings, that's the point I'm getting at.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › PRAYING VERSUS ACTING
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy