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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Abortion Question (Read 2339 times)
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #20 - Feb 12th, 2013 at 10:20am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 12th, 2013 at 9:15am:
I can't help but feel all this fuss over women aborting embryos is just men freaking out over losing control of women's fertility.

Maybe those who wish to make policies around women's rights. Myself, I've already stated I agree a woman can decide to make those type of decisions, if she wishes. All I said was I just disagree with the logic. I have every right to disagree with it, I have no right to force someone to agree with me. Therein lies the difference between my thinking and those men who are elected that wish to make policies around one's rights.
  
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The Free Man
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #21 - Feb 12th, 2013 at 3:19pm
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Abortion is an issue that no matter how much you discuss it, no one is changing their opinions. There have been numerous threads on this topic with no conclusive answer or ground gained.  Huh "The Abortion Question" sounds very similiar to "The Jewish Question". Just pointing that out...
  
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Crystallas
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #22 - Feb 12th, 2013 at 5:09pm
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The Free Man wrote on Feb 12th, 2013 at 3:19pm:
Abortion is an issue that no matter how much you discuss it, no one is changing their opinions. There have been numerous threads on this topic with no conclusive answer or ground gained. Huh "The Abortion Question" sounds very similiar to "The Jewish Question". Just pointing that out...



I have evolved on my position after reading Ron Paul explain why he came to his conclusions. I used to be pro-choice.
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #23 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 7:26am
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keauxbi wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:36pm:
Bill Clinton's stance while president was Abortion should be safe, legal and rare.


As well as accessable. What we have found is that "social conservatives" (anti-abortionists) while acknowledging that they cannot deny a woman a Right to an Abortion because of Roe v Wade they have been engaged in a nefarious campaign to prevent abortions by eliminating access to medical facilities that provide abortions. It's no good to have a Right but be prevented from exercising it. This is a nefarious way to circumvent the Constitution which needs to be condemned. I've read that there are three states where there is only one medical facility in the entire state where a woman can have an abortion but I don't know which states those are.

We also see the most extreme Christians that are anti-abortionists also oppose birth control and sex education in our schools. Birth control and sex education are the most effective means of preventing unwanted pregnancies and yet they oppose this. I find this to be complete hypocracy in their position. If we want to reduce the number of abortions then stopping unwanted pregnancy is the most effective way of accomplishing this.

While birth control is "99%" effective we must realize that only relates to about four days per month when a woman can become pregnant. Men and women often have unprotected sex and the odds are highly against the woman becoming pregnant. Using two forms of birth control, such as the woman taking the pill and also using a condom is 100% effective. It can also be noted that the odds of a fertilized egg resulting in a pregnancy is also very low. Most die a natural death during the first four days before they attach to the wall of the uterus. This is where Plan B works because it prevents the pregnancy during the four days before it actually begins after fertilization of the egg. Anti-abortionists typically oppose Plan B which prevents pregnancy.

We can also note that a person can be pro-choice/pro-life as the two are not contradictory as many assume. A person cannot be pro-choice/pro-life and anti-abortion of course. Libertatians, from all I've read, are pro-choice/pro-life as expressed on the LP website which is a position that I take.

Finally, this comes down to a fundamental question of the natural (inalienable) Rights of the Person which I addressed previously. In a perfect world there would never be a desire for an abortion but we're not living in a perfect world so logically there must be a limitation imposed upon the Freedom to Exercise our individual natural (inalienable) Rights related to our Right of Sovereignty of the Person. This is no different than our limitation on our Freedom to Exercise Speech and Expression or the limitations on our Freedom to Exercise our Right of Self-Defense. In all such cases the Freedom to Exercise a natural (inalienable) Right should be to the least extent possible to achieve the greater protections of our natural (inalienable) Rights as a Individuals living in society.

In the Roe v Wade decision it imposed limitation on the Freedom to Exercise the natural (inalienable) Right of Sovereignty of both the Woman and the Fetus based upon the "potential personhood" of the fetus at viability and it was a pragmatic infringement upon both the preborn and the woman. I agree with the reasoning of the court in this case.

From a "libertarian" ideological perspective I can find no flaws in the Roe v Wade Supreme Court decision.


We also see "anti-Abortionists"
  
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Paulie Girl
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #24 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 12:46pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 8:21am:
Three months should be plenty of time to decide whether or not to have an abortion.


That's my take as well.
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #25 - Feb 26th, 2013 at 7:40am
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Paulie Girl wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 12:46pm:
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Three months should be plenty of time to decide whether or not to have an abortion.


That's my take as well.


Which is what we fundamentally have in the United States today and the vast majority (well over 90%) of abortions occur within the first three months. After the first three months it requires the certification by a medical professional that a medical conditions exists that would necessitate an abortion. These conditions are generally not able to be diagnosed during the first three months.

The problem today is that the "Religious Right" is attempting to prevent abortions by denial of access to medical facilities for women. Their fight against Planned Parenthood is an example of this. From what I understand there are three states today that only have one abortion clinic in the whole state making it almost impossible for a woman to get an abortion even though the woman has a right to obtain an abortion during the first three months.

I would also remind everyone that most "Pro-Choice" individuals are also "Pro-Life" as well. They would all like to see abortions reduced or completely unnecessary but also believe that the government has no authority to deny a woman the Right of Choice in making a decision that is exclusively hers based upon her Right of Sovereignty as a Person.
  
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Paulie Girl
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Re: The Abortion Question
Reply #26 - Feb 26th, 2013 at 5:50pm
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The RR doesn't generally send people out to block access, as they aren't allowed to anyway, but they are there to pray and be a friendly face with info on how to save their baby. PP doesn't usually give the whole spectrum of options to pregnant moms, as they figure the girls/women have decided on abortion anyway. And yes, I am sure most people would like to see abortions reduced, and thankfully, I think that is the case. The rates are decreasing.
  
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