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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Religion and Personal Freedom (Read 3731 times)
Crystallas
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #20 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:58am
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Shiva_TD wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:45am:
I agree that I have a responsibility to present compelling arguments which convince other people. Of course there are religious bigots that wouldn't be convinced regardless of how compelling the arguments are.




I'm not worried about these people. IMO, they do a much better job of scaring people away from their beliefs, than they do, recruiting.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #21 - Feb 21st, 2013 at 3:23pm
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The best way to spread religion is through procreation.  I don't like the idea that religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.
  
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Josh
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #22 - Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:35am
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Religion as Child Abuse?

In his recent book God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens asked whether religion was child abuse, but in my view did not provide a very satisfactory answer. The question can be easily resolved through the philosophical approach of universalization.
It is generally accepted in society that children are mentally deficient and in some ways, of course, they are, in language acquisition and the processing of consequences to actions and so on.
It is generally considered acceptable in a religious society to teach children that God will reward them for obedience to their elders, and punish them for disobedience.
However, we cannot put only children into the category of mentally deficient, since there are those with impaired mental faculties either due to a physical brain problem or injury, or due to age- or illness-related deterioration.
Let us take the example of mentally challenged individuals with Downs syndrome.
Imagine that a home for such individuals existed, run by a man named Bob. Every morning, Bob reminds his bewildered and mentally challenged wards that the air is full of invisible demons who will attack their brains, eyes, teeth and tongues if they ever disobey one of Bobs Commandments. Even if they are slow to obey, these demons will attack them in their dreams, and suck out their life essence, and spit it into a lake of fire, where it will burn for eternity. Every morning, they must get on their knees and plead for Bob's good opinion, otherwise he might butcher all of them by drowning them in toilets, as he did once before when he was offended
We could go on and on, but I think that we all understand that this would be verbal and emotional abuse of the very worst and most destructive kind. The traumatized mentally challenged victims of such a nightmare environment would not be able to differentiate Bob's terrifying tales from actual reality, and would live in abject terror, and we would consider it a staggeringly evil abuse of power for Bob to verbally attack and mentally infect his victims in such a manner.
It's hard to imagine that we would judge the situation any differently if Bob ran a home for elderly adults with dementia, and terrified old ladies in the same manner. In either case, we would view Bob as a deranged sadist, lacking any shred of human compassion for his victims, and our hearts would go out to the suffering that he was inflicting through the vengeful power of his demonic language.
(As a minor tangent, this argument is exactly the same for spanking would we accept it as morally valid to spank the elderly for their forgetfulness?)
Is religion child abuse?
Yes, if it is false. As it is.
Mentally challenged individuals with Down's Syndrome as well as most elderly people are nowhere near as vulnerable as children, since most of them have adults taking a significant interest in their long-term well-being.
However, when parents inflict demonic and terrifying tales of religious superstition on the tender, trusting and dependent minds of their children, who will intervene to save them?
Sadly, only real philosophers, for the rest of the intellectual classes are too busy inventing hiding places for the gods to intervene and save the children.

http://board.freedomainradio.com/blogs/freedomain/archive/2011/06/29/against-the...
  

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Tom Palven
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #23 - Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:51am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 3:23pm:
The best way to spread religion is through procreation. I don't like the idea that religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.


How about statist indoctrination?
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #24 - Feb 22nd, 2013 at 3:50pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:51am:
How about statist indoctrination?


No, I think the term, child abuse, gets thrown around too much.
  
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Paulie Girl
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #25 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 12:40pm
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The rules are made to keep us safe and without regrets, not so we don't have any fun. There's plenty of good fun to be had.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #26 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 1:04pm
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Paulie Girl wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 12:40pm:
The rules are made to keep us safe and without regrets, not so we don't have any fun. There's plenty of good fun to be had.


What rules?  And how far do you go to, "keep us safe and without regrets?" 
  
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Paulie Girl
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #27 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 3:48pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 1:04pm:
What rules? And how far do you go to, "keep us safe and without regrets?"


I meant rules of the Bible.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #28 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 4:09pm
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Paulie Girl wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 3:48pm:
I meant rules of the Bible.


Like wives submit to your husbands?  It's just a stupid rule men made up to give themselves more power in the marriage relationship.  It neither makes us any safer or keeps us from regret.
  
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Re: Religion and Personal Freedom
Reply #29 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 4:54pm
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The Bible also teaches for husbands to submit to wives. Oh did women make that up to have power over men or what?

Really, submitting to your husband/wife is ethical towards your children because children are better off when their parents are together.
  

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