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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Threat from Islamic Terrorists (Read 2076 times)
Steve in VC
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #20 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 10:19am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 26th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
But still, what would that accomplish?  Maybe he thought that once we retaliated the entire Muslim world would rise up against the West?  From what I've read Bin Ladin and his organization were majorly pissed that there were Westerners in their holy land, Saudi Arabia.  On top of that we tend to export our culture, and some people don't like seeing changes like that to their way of life.
The KKK was (is) upset when Blacks were given equal rights as were (are) the fundamentalist Christians when homosexuals were allowed to marry.

In both those cases, the initial discomfort changed the hearts and minds of most of the population of the US.  Many kids have no idea that hanging around with a minority, or a gay, wasn't tolerated by their grandparents.

Islam use to be a progressive faith, they were the keepers of the technology that allowed Europe to recover from the dark ages so quickly (one positive aspect of the Crusades). 

Why did Islam change?  Was it because of enlightened leaders, or.....

So, ,the question is, do we ignore those that make the KKK and Fundamentalist Christians look like pussy cats?
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #21 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:02am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 27th, 2013 at 7:58am:
Didn't end so well for him, did it?  Upon his death we should have declared victory and gotten the hell out of there.  Globalization, not drones, will get the Middle East into the 21st. century.


The mistake was not taking up the Taliban on their offer to arrests and subject bin Ladin to criminal prosecution in an unbiased international court which they made in the weeks following 9/11. President Bush was not interested in seeking justice related to the 9/11 attacks but instead was intent upon extracting revenge and didn't even care if the revenge was directed at the right people.

Remember that the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan was NOT involved in the 9/11 attacks. None of the training or planning for those attacks even occured in Afghanistan. The US didn't even have a criminal indictment against bin Ladin related to the 9/11 attacks and only had a criminal indictment for conspiracy related to the 1998 African embassy bombing. Of note proving that bin Ladin was involved in the 1998 African embassy bombings was not a sure thing as conspiracy is very hard to prove.

The Afghanistan War was completely unnecessary.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #22 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 12:10pm
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I don't quite understand the idea of getting civilians out of those countries.  The private sector does business with them.  Heck, they make a lot of money from us.  Even without a military presence, the likes of Bin Laden are certainly not happy with Western influence.  There'd be terrorism either way.  I tend to agree with Christopher Hitchens, religion is the problem. 

And yeah, terrorism is rare.  9/11 was the best they could ever hope for and they got lucky.  For decades to come regular citizens are going be aware of suspicious activities.  That's our best defense.  I've got an idea, instead of focusing so much attention on terrorism, how about giving more attention to our own citizens killing each other?  That's a much bigger problem.
  
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Libertarian For Our Future
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #23 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 12:43pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 27th, 2013 at 12:10pm:
I don't quite understand the idea of getting civilians out of those countries.  The private sector does business with them.  Heck, they make a lot of money from us.  Even without a military presence, the likes of Bin Laden are certainly not happy with Western influence.  There'd be terrorism either way.  I tend to agree with Christopher Hitchens, religion is the problem.

What I meant was Federal employees & contractors that are funded by the government. If businesses wish to do business with other countries (Google, Apple, Starbucks, McDonalds, to name a few), there shouldn't be anything to stop them. That's not my point, but what civil liberties are being threatened by not having bases/embassies in Libya? Since North Korea has declared their missiles are in range of the US, is it best we setup a base/Embassy in North Korea to protect our civil liberties?

Terrorism/murders are going to be around long after we're long gone off the face of this earth, it's just how few people are. I just don't understand what we are protecting, from terrorists or any one else, by having such a ridiculous amount of presence in the world. The only thing we should be concerned with are when countries/folks begin to attack our country. Once that goes down, that's when I believe we should determine who initiated the attack, and bring them to court and try them for the attacks they've committed. The argument would be that they are a drain on tax payers money but I'd counter that with what about all of the folks who currently reside in jail today. They are on tax payer money, what makes someone whose deemed a 'terrorist' any different than those we put into jail?
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #24 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:22am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Feb 27th, 2013 at 12:10pm:
I don't quite understand the idea of getting civilians out of those countries.  The private sector does business with them.  Heck, they make a lot of money from us.  Even without a military presence, the likes of Bin Laden are certainly not happy with Western influence.  There'd be terrorism either way.  I tend to agree with Christopher Hitchens, religion is the problem. 


In reading the transcripts from bin Ladin, although religion is often mentioned, the real compliant is the tyranny of government. We should remember that bin Ladin wasn't interested in the US at all originally but instead opposed the tyranny of the Royal Family of Saud in Saudi Arabia. We cannot deny that the tyranny existed as it still exists today in Saudi Arabia. It was the alliance of the US with the Royal Family that persisted throughout the 1990's that resulted in the US becoming a terrorist target of al Qaeda.

Of course aligning oneself with tyrannical regimes is never a good idea and the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend. 

  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Threat from Islamic Terrorists
Reply #25 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 1:18pm
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So Bin Laden was opposed to the tyranny of the Saudi royal family, but not the tyranny of the Taliban?  I still think it was a culture clash with religion at its center.  The guy is definitely not opposed to tyranny.
  
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