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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Capitalism and the poor (Read 7616 times)
Liberalterian
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #70 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:50pm
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keauxbi wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:24pm:
I dare say you'll be hard pressed to find a communist government that was democratically elected in any major country.
 

This is the closest thing I could find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino

lol

Also, Cyprus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_of_Working_People
  
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Coopers
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #71 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:07pm
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keauxbi wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
It's like nailing jello to a wall and yes, he is only 18.  Give it time.

"If you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain." -Winston Churchill.


Funnily enough, I became a libertarian at 25, after gradually shifting from socialism to liberalism. So yes, I still have some hope for our socialist friend.
  
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LibertariCAN
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #72 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:24pm
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Coopers wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:07pm:
Funnily enough, I became a libertarian at 25, after gradually shifting from socialism to liberalism. So yes, I still have some hope for our socialist friend.


Within the span of about three or four years, I made the shift from socialist, to liberal, to hardcore conservative (Conservatives in Canada, or Republicans in America), and then finally a slow libertarian revolution.
  

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keauxbi
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #73 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:37pm
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Liberalterian wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:50pm:


The communist government in San Marino lasted 12 years and Cyprus' economy is in the tank.  Lesson learned.
  

Keauxbi
"Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization..."--Edward Abbey
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Proletariat
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #74 - Sep 6th, 2013 at 12:10am
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keauxbi wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 10:24pm:
Since you like to cherry pick and don't ever directly confront arguments....


I am clearly not the only one around here, lol.

Quote:
Ozone is a naturally occurring molecule that is created by exposing atmospheric oxygen (O2) to UV rays (sunlight).  Many large cities experience ozone not as man made pollutant but as a naturally occurring pollutant based upon the conditions at ground level.  The only hole ever found in the ozone layer is at the antarctic possibly due to low levels of UV rays directly striking the atmosphere.  The "hole" is just a thinner layer in the ozone layer and typically fluctuates in size from year to year.  This is all verifiable.


Ok, you may be right. But I mean will the environment in general be patient enough to allow for our companies to take their sweet ass time cleaning up their act?

Quote:
Anyone who makes between $15trillion and $0.01 per year is middle class in my opinion.


You just proved my point. The "middle class" (which people claim capitalism created) doesn't really exist. Does an educated, white collar labour force exist? Sure but that exists in centrally planned economies too. Point being, there is no middle class.

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That's funny, you admit not knowing enough to judge and then you do so anyway. 


I worded it badly, I should have said I don't know but I think, from my knowledge, that Yugoslavia had a good, sustainable economy coupled with excellent working conditions.

Quote:
You claim that A.) the 40 hour week is in danger



http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/bring_back_the_40_hour_work_week/

http://www.usw.org/action_center/rr/news?id=0152

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93364&page=1

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/americans-work-too-much-for-their-own-g...

http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-40-hour-work-week-not-enough-2011-6

http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Most_employed_Americans_work_more_than_40_h...

Quote:
and B.) Denmark is more productive than "us".  I bet it's easy to make statements without backing them up isn't it.


Denamrk,like most European countries, has a shorter work week and higher economic living standards than Canada/the US. To quote you, "this is all verifiable".

Quote:
Funny, communism is usually implemented because of a revolution.  The bolshevik revolution created the Soviet Union, Mao Tse-Tung took power in China after a civil war, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara brought a bloody revolution and communism to Cuba...

I dare say you'll be hard pressed to find a communist government that was democratically elected in any major country.


Yes, I even said communism comes out of revolution. Just like capitalism is followed by decades of brutal worker exploitation.

Quote:
Pollution harms my body as much as I choose to let it.  In a free society I am free to move myself away from pollution according to my own will.  Before you go spouting about poor not being able to move, I'll refer you to the "poor" farmers that moved their entire livelihoods, their belongings, their children, everything during the "dust bowl" period in the US of the 1930s.  Those farmers were poorer than Americans living in poverty now and they did it for the good of their family.  If they could do it with less then, it can be done now.


Really, this is your genius solution? To leave your career/family and go live in the middle of nowhere (because any semi-urban area is polluted nowadays)? Have you/will you moved to such an area? How many of the people in  your life have/will do so?

Quote:
My future is what I make of it. 


Not fully. Sociology pretty much disproves the idea that your ideas/actions/successes/failures, etc... are fully from your doing/in your control. You are largely a libertarian because of your surroundings and not only your own choice.

Quote:
I would refer you to Diogenes of Sinope who said "Poverty is a virtue which one can teach oneself. "   


And I would refer you to learn a little about Africa and then come back and tell me that people's live are in their control and people can choose how much pollution/work abuse they endure.



Sorry everyone for the posting spree today lol, it's cause I don't think I'll get to a computer over the next 2-3 days.
  

"You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine-tenths of the population." -Karl Marx
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Proletariat
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #75 - Sep 6th, 2013 at 12:17am
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LibertariCAN wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:24pm:
Within the span of about three or four years, I made the shift from socialist, to liberal, to hardcore conservative (Conservatives in Canada, or Republicans in America), and then finally a slow libertarian revolution.


I used to be socially conservative, and then I gradually realized that none of their ideas really work (I realized gay marriage isn't breaking down the family, abortion is a woman's right, etc...). I also used to be a supporter of nationalism and then I realized that that will inevitably always lead to war and serve as convenient tool for the rulers to divide the working class and as an example blame "jewish bankers" and "foreigners" for everything. I wasn't always fully left wing.
  

"You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine-tenths of the population." -Karl Marx
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keauxbi
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #76 - Sep 6th, 2013 at 9:11am
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Keauxbi
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Liberalterian
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #77 - Sep 6th, 2013 at 10:18am
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keauxbi wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 11:37pm:
The communist government in San Marino lasted 12 years and Cyprus' economy is in the tank.  Lesson learned.

Yep, and now San Marino is doing very well. Many years after under a moderate government.

As for Cyprus, to be fair they mostly got screwed by the EU.

Regardless, the point still stands that no major nation elected communists into power.


Oh and Proletariat, we have one thing in common. I used to be Nationalist too.  Grin
  
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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #78 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:36pm
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The problem is that the poor that stand to gain the most from the free market and libertarians are told they are suppose to be for socialism that actually makes them poorer.
  

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Re: Capitalism and the poor
Reply #79 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 6:41pm
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socialism failed in the 19th and 20th century, as it had before

socialism can't organize production like unregulated capitalism can

so socialists seek to bleed dry like tiks capitalism

regualtions aka restrictions
confiscation aka taxes
union laws
welfare
debt spending

just block all that and keep gov spending low, limit lawyers sucking out money by replacing lawyers with software, and capitalism would make us all rich

if government could make beter hospital it would

it can't

that's why obamacare creates 16k new irs agents and trains 0 new doctors

also law forbid software being used to help people with medical problems and forbid law programs from replacing lawyers

2008 happened despite 2000 phd in econ at fed

shut fed down

government should never be able to debt spend
deficit should be 0
and anything it pays it should already have cash in bank for

end most gov jobs

cut gov spending 99%

end all wars

allow mass produced housing

allow atomic power with modern cleaner French methods and use nasa to launch debris into space

1 atomic powrplant can power 4 cities for pennies.

allow private union free trains and busses

end public school

end ama and bar

get education out of the hands of government

use free software like FreeBSD and common lisp at all government offices

charge merchants to guard trading ships

trade no war

ask yourself what you get for 40% your paycheck?
10% sales tax?
all taxes on food including union inflated transport costs and unearned union pensions

imagine keeping your 100% pay?

corming your own corp without any accounting but income -expense

government will never produce a cheap big house I would love to se it try

the tek is there

  
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