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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!? (Read 2815 times)
Josh
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Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Jan 27th, 2014 at 12:13pm
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The New York Times published an article "condemning" libertarianism ("libertarians don't like Lincoln blsudshhshf") and in the process, mentioned a ton of great libertarian scholars as well as libertarian organizations. Yeah, we're in the mainstream media now.

http://joshcardosi.blogspot.com/2014/01/ny-times-brings-libertarianism-in-media....
  

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LibertariCAN
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 3:00pm
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Once again, a bunch of people who think that libertarian simply means further right than conservative. As well, taking Walter Block's JOKE completely out of context establishes further that the author is completely intellectually dishonest.

I also always take particular annoyance with this representation of libertarianism and its connotations:

Quote:
He has renounced many of the isolationist tenets central to libertarianism


More misrepresentation and out of context off-hand descriptions:

Quote:
Ron Paul, an obstetrician who disliked Medicare and Medicaid and other government programs that he viewed as encroaching on personal freedom


As if the writer can with a straight face equate all of these people:

Quote:
The term libertarian adopted by 19th-century European anarchists would eventually become the movement associated today with the novels of Ayn Rand, the economics of Milton Friedman and the antitax campaigns of Grover Norquist, as well as quixotic causes like full legalization of drugs.


I stopped reading after that.

Mass media tends to create a caricature of everything, and quite frankly I'm getting annoyed with it.

As well, there seems to be an implicit divide in mainstream media between "Economics" and "Austrian Economics", as if there was a right way to do economics, and the heterodox way of doing economics that is the Austrian school. These misrepresentations are some of the many reasons why people remain ignorant of economics, as well as libertarianism specifically.
  

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Josh
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 6:13pm
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Who cares? It's the same ol' objections that are always in the media -- but this time they're bringing up libertarian scholars.
  

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LibertariCAN
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #3 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 8:37pm
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Josh wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 6:13pm:
Who cares? It's the same ol' objections that are always in the media -- but this time they're bringing up libertarian scholars.


"Objections"
  

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Shiva_TD
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 4:22am
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From the NY Times article itself there was a single sentence that summed up the fundamental problem.

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Mr. Paul, a self-described libertarian Republican.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/us/politics/rand-pauls-mixed-inheritance.html?...

Rand Paul, and many in the extremist Tea Party movement had long been "self-identifying" themselves as "libertarians" and they are not. They're extremist right-wing Republicans that are anything but libertarian in their overall political philosophy. Just because a person promotes a few "libertarian" philosophies doesn't make them a libertarian.

Rand Paul, and his father Ron Paul, were never really libertarians but instead are extremist right-wing Republicans. I actually on the the Campaign for Liberty email list and it is NOT a libertarian organization.

The problem is that so many people and the media are completely ignorant of libertarian political ideology and they believe and promote the belief that people like Rand Paul and Ron Paul represent libertarian beliefs when they don't.

The Libertarian Party itself has repeatedly condemned the Tea Party movement because it represents itself as being libertarian when it is not.
  
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Coopers
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:42am
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Shiva_TD wrote on Jan 31st, 2014 at 4:22am:
Just because a person promotes a few "libertarian" philosophies doesn't make them a libertarian.


Indeed. So stop calling yourself a libertarian.
  
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Crystallas
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 6:31am
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Coopers wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:42am:
Indeed. So stop calling yourself a libertarian.



  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2014 at 10:34am
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Coopers wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 5:42am:
Indeed. So stop calling yourself a libertarian.


I do not support the Democrats agenda, or the Republican agenda, and certainly not the Tea Party Republican agenda and never have.

Every one of my political opinions is based upon the Inalienable Rights of the Person and "classical liberalism" which was the actual fundation for the Libertarian political philosophy.

I am willing, in limited instances, to allow certian infringements upon my Freedom to Exercise my Inalienable Rights so long as such infringements do not disparage the actual right and so long as such limititions are to the least extent possible to achieve the greater protections of the Inalienable Rights and Freedoms of others.

For example I have no problem whatsoever with the limitation upon my Freedom of Speech and Expression where i'm prohibited from yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as it does not infringe upon my Inalienable Right of Thought where i have the Freedom to express it. I can yell "fire" all I want outside of the theater.


  
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #8 - Feb 3rd, 2014 at 5:23am
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Shiva_TD wrote on Feb 2nd, 2014 at 10:34am:
I do not support the Democrats agenda, or the Republican agenda, and certainly not the Tea Party Republican agenda and never have.

Every one of my political opinions is based upon the Inalienable Rights of the Person and "classical liberalism" which was the actual fundation for the Libertarian political philosophy.

I am willing, in limited instances, to allow certian infringements upon my Freedom to Exercise my Inalienable Rights so long as such infringements do not disparage the actual right and so long as such limititions are to the least extent possible to achieve the greater protections of the Inalienable Rights and Freedoms of others.

For example I have no problem whatsoever with the limitation upon my Freedom of Speech and Expression where i'm prohibited from yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as it does not infringe upon my Inalienable Right of Thought where i have the Freedom to express it. I can yell "fire" all I want outside of the theater.




In response, I will quote Rothbard quoting Justice Hugo Block:

Quote:
I went to a theater last night with you. I have an idea if you and I had gotten up and marched around that theater, whether we said anything or not, we would have been arrested. Nobody has ever said that the First Amendment gives people a right to go anywhere in the world they want to go or say anything in the world they want to say. Buying the theater tickets did not buy the opportunity to make a speech there. We have a system of property in this country which is also protected by the Constitution. We have a system of property, which means that a man does not have a right to do anything he wants anywhere he wants to do it. For instance, I would feel a little badly if somebody were to try to come into my house and tell me that he had a constitutional right to come in there because he wanted to make a speech against the Supreme Court. I realize the freedom of people to make a speech against the Supreme Court, but I do not want him to make it in my house.

That is a wonderful aphorism about shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. But you do not have to shout "fire" to get arrested. If a person creates a disorder in a theater, they would get him there not because of what he hollered but because he hollered. They would get him not because of any views he had but because they thought he did not have any views that they wanted to hear there. That is the way I would answer not because of what he shouted but because he shouted.


A private law society based on respect for private property promptly takes care of your theatre dilemma. There is no need for government imposition.

http://mises.org/daily/2569

  
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LibertariCAN
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Re: Spooner, Rothbard, Rockwell, Tom Woods, Walter Block in NY Times!?
Reply #9 - Feb 3rd, 2014 at 11:50am
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Coopers wrote on Feb 3rd, 2014 at 5:23am:
In response, I will quote Rothbard quoting Justice Hugo Block:


A private law society based on respect for private property promptly takes care of your theatre dilemma. There is no need for government imposition.

http://mises.org/daily/2569



Indeed.

I addressed this in the other thread with Shiva.

The fire in a crowded theater example of free speech is actually such a lazy platitude.
  

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