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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Russia Invades Ukraine (Read 2641 times)
Jeff
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #20 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 8:46am
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Liberalterian wrote on Mar 13th, 2014 at 7:43pm:
Pretty well, what about the Cuban Missile Crisis? The thing is we need someone who is an effective negotiator - not Mr. Boring McFootinMouth John Kerry. JFK was great at negotiating and speaking with the Russians.

In any case, diplomacy is always a good thing. Entangling alliances are not. Thus why I would not support guaranteeing Ukrainian Independence but I am certainly for trying to negotiate and trying to help them avoid an overt shooting war.

The Cuban missile crisis?
The U.S.S.R. agreed to remove it's missiles from Cuba, in return we removed our missiles from Turkey and guaranteed that Cuba would remain communist. What a swell result! Well, except for the Cuban people.
Certainly, Ukraine can avoid a shooting war by not shooting and simply allowing Russia to take what it wants.
How will talking to the Russians while they annex territory help? Has negotiating with the Russians ever resulted in them giving up territory they have seized?

  
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Awesome
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #21 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 3:03pm
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I'm Russian. Anyone wanna try negotiating with me?

I'm kidding of course; it's just funny reading a discussion about whether it ever makes sense to negotiate with Russians, while being about three quarters Russian.

Anyways, the US government of course shouldn't be involved. Putin's invasion is obviously wrong (as was the US invasion into Iraq), but the US government shouldn't intervene (as the Russian government shouldn't have intervene (and it didn't) during the Iraq war.)
Going to war would (obviously) be insane, and sanctions never work but only give bad rulers an excuse for why the population doesn't live well. Furthermore, in this case, sanctions would raise oil prices, which isn't desirable, as many people complain to the government about gas prices. Finally, making "diplomatic negotiations" won't work, obviously. I mean think about it: would the US government listen if Putin spoke against the war in Afghanistan? The Russian government sees the US government pretty much the same as the US government sees the Russian government. So no, "diplomatic negotiations" won't work. I'm with Jeff here.
  

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Liberalterian
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #22 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 4:46pm
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At least we can all agree that sanctions on Russia are a bad idea.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #23 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 5:56pm
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Liberalterian wrote on Mar 14th, 2014 at 4:46pm:
At least we can all agree that sanctions on Russia are a bad idea.

I do agree, thanks. Economic wars, historically anyway, lead to shooting wars.
Some people like shooting wars. Always have. I'm horrified by the thought. This is the 21st Century, and barbarism is still in style.
Not at all what I hoped for.
  
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LibertariCAN
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #24 - Mar 19th, 2014 at 4:12pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2014 at 5:56pm:
I do agree, thanks. Economic wars, historically anyway, lead to shooting wars.
Some people like shooting wars. Always have. I'm horrified by the thought. This is the 21st Century, and barbarism is still in style.
Not at all what I hoped for.


Indeed.

It's quite amazing to me that current world leaders are all too eager to start Cold War 2.0 over this issue.

I have to say that it is quite nice to watch the U.S. Foreign Relations teams squirm over how to respond to Russian action given that America has absolutely no more moral legs to stand on when it comes to telling other countries not to intervene in the affairs of sovereign states.
  

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Liberalterian
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #25 - Mar 20th, 2014 at 8:44am
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LibertariCAN wrote on Mar 19th, 2014 at 4:12pm:
Indeed.

It's quite amazing to me that current world leaders are all too eager to start Cold War 2.0 over this issue.

I have to say that it is quite nice to watch the U.S. Foreign Relations teams squirm over how to respond to Russian action given that America has absolutely no more moral legs to stand on when it comes to telling other countries not to intervene in the affairs of sovereign states.

Purely from a Geopolitical standpoint having the Cold War makes sense... it's a great way to justify outrageous military spending (for both sides).
  
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Jeff
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reply #26 - Mar 21st, 2014 at 10:03am
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Liberalterian wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 8:44am:
Purely from a Geopolitical standpoint having the Cold War makes sense... it's a great way to justify outrageous military spending (for both sides).

Yes, it makes sense for preserving and increasing the power of the state.
What makes sense from the perspective of liberty? Certainly not destroying ours here in the U.S., something which will also destroy our prosperity and thus our ability to defend our country.
Perhaps we've already lost so much liberty (and prosperity) that we can no longer police the world. That, to my thinking, is a good thing to stop doing anyway, just on principle, but how long before we can't even defend ourselves?
  
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