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Land of Freedom
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Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Mar 15th, 2014 at 3:13pm
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Would you avoid Obamacare on principle? Even if that means paying a fine?

  

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Land of Freedom
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2014 at 3:13pm
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Someone may be able to sue if they are fined.
  

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Anti-Federalist
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2014 at 10:27pm
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Well, I can afford private health insurance, so this isn't really an issue for me.

But, if I couldn't, I honestly don't know what I'd do. In all honesty, I'd probably buy a subsidized insurance plan on an ACA marketplace. Considering that the government is confiscating my wealth (and in more ways than just the income tax) I don't think it's that immoral to try and get some sort of refund.

Also, the government itself is inflating the costs of health care and private insurance, so it wouldn't be entirely my fault if I was unable to afford those things. I'd still try to get some sort of low-quality insurance plan to dodge the individual mandate, but the ACA outlaws those as well, so...
  
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #3 - Mar 15th, 2014 at 10:31pm
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I'd rather die before taking obummercare (not exaggerating).
  

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Crystallas
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #4 - Mar 15th, 2014 at 10:54pm
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I run my own business and I wont hire employees now because I would go out of business with the ACA rules. All extra work is outsourced or sub-contracted. I still have the same private insurance that I have had since 2007, so based on principle, I can't say. Unfortunately having a family and kids changes the type of risks I'm willing to take.

However, I do go to a few an uncertified dentists who work under the table. They're immigrants that came to the US, fully qualified, cleanest dental facilities I have ever been to, and most thorough and caring people I know. If I had the same access to a small network of reliable doctors that did the same thing(without relying on going on medical holidays, which is basically going out of country to get work done), then you're damn right, I'll totally leave the system.
  
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Anti-Federalist
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #5 - Mar 15th, 2014 at 11:00pm
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Land of Freedom wrote on Mar 15th, 2014 at 3:13pm:
Someone may be able to sue if they are fined.

I don't see how. The government courts system is obviously going to uphold a government-imposed law.
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 7:42am
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Land of Freedom wrote on Mar 15th, 2014 at 3:13pm:
Would you avoid Obamacare on principle? Even if that means paying a fine?


Why would I choose to expose myself to a financial liability risk by not having health insurance?

I'm not actually affected by Obamacare nor are roughly 90% of Americans that were already covered by either private insurance (mostly employer provided group insurance), Medicare, or pre-expansion Medicaid.

We should note that the expansion of Medicaid was to address the fact that the federal (and state) governments had refused to fund Medicaid adequately since it was created so that it could fulfill it's Mission Statement. Medicaid, as least in my opinion, is Constitutional because it's adminstered by the States voluntarily and not by the federal government which merely provides funding.

Certianly for those that have been financially unable to purchase health insurance the government subsidies provide them with the means of avoiding financial risks associated with health services so I don't see why they would turn down those subsidies anymore than any of us would refuse to accept Social Security benefits.

I don't support "Obamacare" because I believe there are better ways to address the problem. What was unacceptable was the denial of medical services to tens of millions of Americans that resulted in roughly 45,000 Americans dying annually due to a lack of health insurance that prevented early detection of desease that could have been cured.

So "Obamacare" sucks but with that said please provide a proposal that will address the problem of tens of millions of Americans not receiving adequate health care and roughly 45,000 people dying due to that. What can be said is that the following default proposal by Republicans is unacceptable.

"Don't get sick and if you do get sick then die early."

Offer a better proposal because obviously with all of the "principled" members of this forum I'm sure that someone can offer a better solution to the problem.

  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 7:45am
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Land of Freedom wrote on Mar 15th, 2014 at 3:13pm:
Someone may be able to sue if they are fined.


The US Supreme Court has already ruled that the "tax" (fine) is Constitutional so there aren't grounds for a lawsuit.
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 8:03am
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Crystallas wrote on Mar 15th, 2014 at 10:54pm:
I run my own business and I wont hire employees now because I would go out of business with the ACA rules.


I don't see how this makes sense. Obviously if you have less than 50 full time employees you wouldn't be affected by Obamacare at all. As for subcontracting the work out it will cost more than the cost of providing the insurance and doing the work in-house.

I'm actually in the process of starting a manufacturing business and all of the work is basically going to be subcontracted out initially because we won't have the sales to support our own shop. Based upon our business plan our costs to manufacture will be about 30% higher because of outsourcing the work but until we have the income to cover the overhead costs it is better to pay 30% more than to lose money due to overhead costs. As demand and sales increase we will transition to in-house production incrementally as it becomes financially viable.

The cost of providing health insurance, that we will do even though we won't meet the 50 employee limit, is insignificant when it's accounted for by the business plan. It costs less than $2/hr to provide the group health insurance. Of note our starting wages will be $20/hr ($41,000/yr) so none of our employees are going to be living in poverty and 10% of the profits will be dedicated to profit sharing with the employees.

With that said our enterprise is going to be highly successful because we're tapping a market where we have no current competition and the major potential competitor has no plans of becoming involved for the next several years.

I'm not sure why so many seem to be incapable of creating a business plan that provides adequate compensation in wages and benefits for their employees while still allowing the enterprise to achieve a very good profit on the goods and/or services provided.
  
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2014 at 11:29am
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I avoid health-care on principle. Today's health-care is modern mercantilism. Anyone who needs to use violence (the mechanism of government enforcement) to make more money than they would have without it; is completely unscrupulous. Therefore doctors who participate in this system are hypocrites, and also lack moral fiber.
Now with the Affordable Health Care Act; I will pay more taxes. I will continue to slander and liable the modern day medical malfeasance for what it is.

Kind regards.
  

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