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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Would you avoid Obamacare on principle? (Read 2294 times)
Jeff
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #20 - Mar 19th, 2014 at 4:45pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Mar 19th, 2014 at 9:44am:
Most enterprises fail because the owners/managers are incompetent. Yes, economic changes like the 2008 recession caused many enterprises to fail and we can blame Congress and our government for the 2008 recession which failed to regulate the banking industry properly. 

You have the typical 'progressive' world view. I know you can't help it, but it really causes you to talk nonsense.
There is almost zero possibility of any government, anywhere, ever to regulate a country's financial system 'properly'. It is almost certain that the attempt will cause harm.
Fraud and theft have been illegal under the common law since long before this country existed, and violators should be prosecuted and be required to make restitution, as the common law always required.
Beyond that, government fiddling with the economy will cause much more economic distress than occurs naturally in a free economy.
As to pollution and the EPA- prior to the industrial revolution in the U.S., pollution was dealt as a common law tort. If you caused damage to others by polluting the air or water or ground, they could sue you and be made whole.

Unfortunately, our Supreme Court got involved.

A rail road company in NY state built a line along a farmers property, and the pollution caused by their coal burning engines, blown by the prevailing winds, killed the farmers apple orchards.
He sued and won in every court up through the Federal Appeals Court. Over and over again, our courts, as they always had, held the R.R. Co. liable to make the farmer whole. Until the Supreme Court.
They overturned, without reason or the backing of law, all of the precedents of the entire history of the common law, and all the previous courts. Our Supreme Court held that industrializing our country was more important for the 'common good' than was the livelihood of one individual citizen. It was a very 'progressive' decision.
The result was to give every industry in America a green light to pollute. And many of them did.
Not only did this result in the pollution of many areas of our country, it destroyed the R&D into pollution abatement that should have grown up along with the polluting industries.
Naturally, all government created problems require government solutions, so now we're crippled with the EPA.


  
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Josh
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #21 - Mar 19th, 2014 at 8:09pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Mar 19th, 2014 at 9:44am:
we can blame Congress and our government for the 2008 recession which failed to regulate the banking industry properly.

You seriously need to get the hell off this forum.
  

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Shiva_TD
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #22 - Mar 20th, 2014 at 9:44am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 19th, 2014 at 4:45pm:
Fraud and theft have been illegal under the common law since long before this country existed, and violators should be prosecuted and be required to make restitution, as the common law always required.


There was massive fraud being committed by loan agents misrepresenting the costs associated with ARM's prior to the financial collapse. It was fraud by intentional omission as they didn't tell to prospective borrowers how much the loan payment could increase where it would be beyond their limited income to afford.

How many of those loan agents went to prison for committing fraud in selling borrowers on ARM loans? Virtually none as I recall.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #23 - Mar 20th, 2014 at 4:17pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 9:44am:
There was massive fraud being committed by loan agents misrepresenting the costs associated with ARM's prior to the financial collapse. It was fraud by intentional omission as they didn't tell to prospective borrowers how much the loan payment could increase where it would be beyond their limited income to afford.

How many of those loan agents went to prison for committing fraud in selling borrowers on ARM loans? Virtually none as I recall.

My point exactly. The government you think should be regulating the financial system, (which in fact has been heavily regulating the financial system for a very long time) has destroyed our common law, which would have held those people liable for their wrongdoing.
You want to give these people more power?


  
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Crystallas
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #24 - Mar 20th, 2014 at 7:11pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 4:17pm:
My point exactly. The government you think should be regulating the financial system, (which in fact has been heavily regulating the financial system for a very long time) has destroyed our common law, which would have held those people liable for their wrongdoing.
You want to give these people more power?




He's a statist trying to claim otherwise. Even when his logic is crushed, he keeps responding with lengthy replies of why the government works. It's not productive to really feed into someone with a learning disability.
  
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Incite Panic
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #25 - Mar 20th, 2014 at 10:27pm
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"why the government works"

If you want a job done with inefficiency, than ask the government to do it. If you want that good or service to be completely, and absurdly run; ask government to have the monopoly over it, or give that special privilege to another. It is all done by the means of violence, which is oppression. Free people wouldn't let monopolies occur. Monopolies can only exist with violence supporting them.

Slavery is a a two way contract. (Those who adore authoritarianism or violence are slaves willingly.) - Perhaps; those who adore social medicine adore the subjugation of others?

I strongly detest bullies!
  

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Jeff
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #26 - Mar 21st, 2014 at 9:55am
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Crystallas wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 7:11pm:
He's a statist trying to claim otherwise. Even when his logic is crushed, he keeps responding with lengthy replies of why the government works. It's not productive to really feed into someone with a learning disability.

I could be wrong, but I have an idea that people might visit this forum who are just recently taking interest in political economy, who aren't finding satisfying answers in the pap served up by our ruling parties, who are looking for alternatives and hope to find them in libertarianism.
Those people deserve to hear the utter emptiness of 'progressive' statist arguments (thanks Shiva for supplying us with them!), as they deserve to learn that libertarians do in fact defend everybody's right to express their opinion.
BTW, are you sure Shiva is a man? I'm thinking woman.
  
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Shiva_TD
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #27 - Mar 21st, 2014 at 2:37pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 4:17pm:
My point exactly. The government you think should be regulating the financial system, (which in fact has been heavily regulating the financial system for a very long time) has destroyed our common law, which would have held those people liable for their wrongdoing.
You want to give these people more power?


No, I don't want to grant them more power. I want them to use their existing power for the protections of the Rights of the Person and to stop supporting Corporate Capitalism and engaging in Crony Capitalism.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would you avoid Obamacare on principle?
Reply #28 - Mar 21st, 2014 at 3:37pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Mar 21st, 2014 at 2:37pm:
No, I don't want to grant them more power. I want them to use their existing power for the protections of the Rights of the Person and to stop supporting Corporate Capitalism and engaging in Crony Capitalism.

That's a nice fantasy, a government full of angels, and none but angels.
Are you talking about the coming of the Kingdom of God upon the earth?
I'll settle for a Constitutional limited government full of elected public servants of a libertarian inclination. That's probably what you meant... Roll Eyes well, except that you think the government needs unlimited power.
  
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