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Nate
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For "copblock" libertarians...
Mar 22nd, 2014 at 5:53pm
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Howdy,

I'll cut to the chase. If you're at a DUI checkpoint and the cop asks you to pull over into secondary, to what extent can you object to that? Are they then detaining you, or are they still within the parameters set by the Supreme Court which states they may stop you for a reasonable amount of time without any reasonable suspicion to ascertain whether you are drunk.

I'm not able to find much online, my guess is that it's in a legal gray area.
  
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Josh
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #1 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 6:21pm
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I don't know how long they can keep you stopped. I know they can legally stop you but they do not have the right to search your vehicle without a warrant. Additionally, if they pull you out of the vehicle, the only question that should be answered is the question you ask them: "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" You never have a legal obligation to talk to the police.
  

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Nate
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #2 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 6:27pm
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Josh,

Thanks for the reply, but with all due respect that wasn't what I was asking. I can find that information anywhere on the internet. Unfortunately, I can't find this which is why I created a thread here instead of Googling. It's always good to have a reminder though.
  
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Josh
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #3 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 8:17pm
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I stated within the first sentence that I did not know the answer to your question specifically. I provided the other information because it is useful to know what to do if you are in the situation in which you were asking about.
  

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Crystallas
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #4 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 11:06pm
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Ask the government, they'll give you an honest answer.
  
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Nate
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #5 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 1:00am
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^That actually is my very thought. It pisses me off that cops are allowed to lie to you and that you have to know every nuance of the law in order to protect your rights; often, like as is probably the case here, it's in a legal gray area.

Because cops can lie and give bullshit orders, you can't know whether something is a legitimate order or if they're bullshitting until the cuffs are on you. In this scenario, I'm not sure about the law but I'm pretty sure being pulled into secondary is detainment. If I ask "Are you ordering me?" they will just say yes.

You're right. There should be one place I can go to that explains everything I'll need to know. While I'm fine with cops being able to 'manipulate,' they should have to stop short of giving directives which citizens have no obligation to comply with.

And if you say you don't answer questions, you should not be held any longer than anyone else because you want to enforce your right.
--

That said, I'm still curious about my original question. My guess is that everyone else is in the same boat I'm in, am I right?
  
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Coopers
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #6 - Mar 24th, 2014 at 1:29am
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Legalise drunk driving: http://mises.org/daily/2343
  
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Nate
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #7 - Mar 24th, 2014 at 2:48am
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"The Chief Justice reasoned that no one could seriously dispute the magnitude of the drunken driving problem or the State's interest in eradicating it. Moreover, Rehnquist found that a 25 second delay in travel was minimally intrusive on motorist's rights, especially considering the fact that traveling motorists could turn off the road when they saw the roadblock, or make U-turns to avoid passing through it. As to the effectiveness of the sobriety check-point, the court held that the procedure was effective, even though only 1 of the 126 drivers stopped was arrested."

motorists.org/dui/roadblock

According to this website, DUI checkpoints were found constitutional for two reasons with respect to motorists:

1: 25 seconds is minimally intrusive on motorists rights
2: Motorists may turn around if they wish to avoid a checkpoint.

Under my reading, I think there is a very good argument to be made that pulling into secondary is more than 25 seconds and therefore not "minimally intrusive" and much closer to a detention in nature.

Also, the second tenant kind of irks me, since the roadblock I experienced was on an interstate (yes, you read that right) and I attempted to avoid it by pulling off on an exit but they were still there waiting at the exit. Part of the reason SUI checkpoints were found constitutional was because motorists could avoid them, but this was no an option in this scenario.
  
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Nate
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #8 - Mar 24th, 2014 at 2:52am
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Sorry for the atrocious grammar (typing on
My iPhone) but I'm sure you'll all be able to read what I'm writing.

According to this website:

http://www.metafilter.com/135818/Am-I-being-detained-Am-I-free-to-go

Pulling into secondary is a detention, but it doesn't seem like the most reliable source.
  
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Bourgeois
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Re: For "copblock" libertarians...
Reply #9 - Mar 24th, 2014 at 9:30am
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Coopers wrote on Mar 24th, 2014 at 1:29am:
Legalise drunk driving: http://mises.org/daily/2343

I kind of disagree with this. Drunk driving should be illegal, just trough the force of private road owners.
  

"The government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples."

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