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Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Mar 30th, 2014 at 3:37pm
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Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or should Libertarians try to nominate the best of the Republicans? And the Democrats also.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #1 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 3:56pm
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I think the Libertarian Party should seek to ally itself with Tea Party organizations, Constitutionalists and any conservatives that aren't actually 'progressive' statists in disguise and work with the Liberty caucus in Congress and the Goldwater wing of the Republican Party to find a good candidate with strong libertarian leanings. A mainstream conventional libertarian.
Call him whatever you want. Form a new party. Revive the Whig name, I don't care, just elect him.

I'm thinking how much of an improvement it would be to have a President that I only disagreed with 20% of the time, instead of all of the time.
  
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #2 - Mar 31st, 2014 at 6:57am
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They should nominate Adam Kokesh Wink
  
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Crystallas
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #3 - Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:54am
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The Libertarian Party should be focused on splitting the statist-candidates vote to help us get the most chances. Good, better, best.

Unfortunately, the LP is going to rally organically around what comes up as the best at that given time. Which is how it should be, but IMO, that will end up splitting any type of Presidential vote since I do think our basic ideals make up the majority. A recipe for a Clinton White House indeed.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #4 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 8:33am
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Crystallas wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:54am:
The Libertarian Party should be focused on splitting the statist-candidates vote to help us get the most chances. Good, better, best.

Unfortunately, the LP is going to rally organically around what comes up as the best at that given time. Which is how it should be, but IMO, that will end up splitting any type of Presidential vote since I do think our basic ideals make up the majority. A recipe for a Clinton White House indeed.

Maybe it will be Hillary running against Jeb.

What about Congress? From what I can tell, Tea Party folks are trying to get their candidates on the congressional ballot. The Republican Party is fighting them.
I think libertarians (and the LP) should make a realistic assessment of chances of Libertarian candidates winning, or simply splitting the vote so Tea Party Republicans lose to Democrats.
Are labels more important than electing anti-collectivists?
Should Libertarians run as Republicans?

Of course there's the problem of libertarian leaning and libertarian sounding candidates becoming tools of big government once elected, or simply being sidelined by the Congressional Machine.
  
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Liberalterian
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #5 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 8:58am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 3:56pm:
I think the Libertarian Party should seek to ally itself with Tea Party organizations, Constitutionalists and any conservatives that aren't actually 'progressive' statists in disguise and work with the Liberty caucus in Congress and the Goldwater wing of the Republican Party to find a good candidate with strong libertarian leanings. A mainstream conventional libertarian.
Call him whatever you want. Form a new party. Revive the Whig name, I don't care, just elect him.

I'm thinking how much of an improvement it would be to have a President that I only disagreed with 20% of the time, instead of all of the time.

Interesting... I take the opposite approach. While I do like some local Tea Party folks and chapters (the ones down here are actually libertarian and supported Ron Paul), overall a lot of Tea Partiers (or people who identify as such) are either fundamentalist religious psycopaths or Neocons, or oftentimes BOTH! Or in the case of one guy I know, Isolationists. And I mean ACTUAL Isolationists, not non-interventionist. This guy I know literally wants to ban ALL international trade from entering the United States. And he's a Tea Partier and says he supports free markets but you have to prevent foreign entities from controlling U.S. politics through using U.S. dollars (which he claims will then go to influencing elections in the U.S.)

Nah, instead of those assholes let's support some actual libertarians. And yeah, preferably Progressive libertarians. Sure, not Progressive Statists, rather those who support: Equality before the law, ending corporate welfare (focusing on this rather than the pittance that is welfare to poor people), bringing home the troops, being opposed to Creationism, ending special tax breaks to Corporations preferably by ending the Income Tax (including Corporate) or at least applying a flat corporate income tax across the board (without loopholes but at a much lower rate than we have now, maybe 15% or 10%).

Basically, my opposition to the Tea Party and Conservatives is first because a lot of them don't seem to be all too informed. As I said, the guy who wants to ban ALL international trade into the United States as well as punish American companies for outsourcing to "non-Americans". As well as the types who want to ban abortion and impose creationism onto public schools. Then there's the Neo-Cons... yeah I think I'm done with Conservatives. I definitely prefer Progressive individuals to Conservatives any day of the week! You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.

Oh and when it comes to Hillary Clinton vs. Jeb Bush: Just NO! I'm tired of both candidates being the polar opposite of myself... I'm also tired of having the same two families be the ones on the ticket. Seriously, after the last Bush how in the hell is Jeb Bush even remotely a possible candidate? And after his BS speech at the last RNC how is he a possible candidate?! He said that Common Core is Great and that the Federal Government should take a BIGGER role in Education since this is "investing in our future" and my dad (who is a Socialist) was watching this and said "Finally! At least one of these guys isn't an idiot!" That should tell you something! F JEB BUSH! And Hitlery? She should have been out of the question after she ceased to be Secretary of State (preferably before this even   Grin).
  
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Liberalterian
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #6 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 9:49am
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Also, which Conservative and/or Tea Party people do you know that want to seriously cut spending on the Military? The Pentagon has billions in wasted spending and yet a lot of them want to INCREASE Pentagon funding.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #7 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:20pm
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Liberalterian wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 8:58am:
Interesting... I take the opposite approach. While I do like some local Tea Party folks and chapters (the ones down here are actually libertarian and supported Ron Paul), overall a lot of Tea Partiers (or people who identify as such) are either fundamentalist religious psycopaths or Neocons, or oftentimes BOTH! Or in the case of one guy I know, Isolationists. And I mean ACTUAL Isolationists, not non-interventionist. This guy I know literally wants to ban ALL international trade from entering the United States. And he's a Tea Partier and says he supports free markets but you have to prevent foreign entities from controlling U.S. politics through using U.S. dollars (which he claims will then go to influencing elections in the U.S.)

Nah, instead of those assholes let's support some actual libertarians. And yeah, preferably Progressive libertarians. Sure, not Progressive Statists, rather those who support: Equality before the law, ending corporate welfare (focusing on this rather than the pittance that is welfare to poor people), bringing home the troops, being opposed to Creationism, ending special tax breaks to Corporations preferably by ending the Income Tax (including Corporate) or at least applying a flat corporate income tax across the board (without loopholes but at a much lower rate than we have now, maybe 15% or 10%).

Basically, my opposition to the Tea Party and Conservatives is first because a lot of them don't seem to be all too informed. As I said, the guy who wants to ban ALL international trade into the United States as well as punish American companies for outsourcing to "non-Americans". As well as the types who want to ban abortion and impose creationism onto public schools. Then there's the Neo-Cons... yeah I think I'm done with Conservatives. I definitely prefer Progressive individuals to Conservatives any day of the week! You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.

Oh and when it comes to Hillary Clinton vs. Jeb Bush: Just NO! I'm tired of both candidates being the polar opposite of myself... I'm also tired of having the same two families be the ones on the ticket. Seriously, after the last Bush how in the hell is Jeb Bush even remotely a possible candidate? And after his BS speech at the last RNC how is he a possible candidate?! He said that Common Core is Great and that the Federal Government should take a BIGGER role in Education since this is "investing in our future" and my dad (who is a Socialist) was watching this and said "Finally! At least one of these guys isn't an idiot!" That should tell you something! F JEB BUSH! And Hitlery? She should have been out of the question after she ceased to be Secretary of State (preferably before this even Grin).

'Progressive' libertarian is an oxymoron. Do you know nothing?
And BTW, I've been supporting real libertarians since 1978, and I know one when I hear one.
  
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #8 - Apr 4th, 2014 at 11:31am
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There is more and more discontent by Americans with both the Democrats and Republicans where those that identify with these parties are down to 30% and 25% respectively. Independents represent the largest block of voters at 40% but have been delegated to typically voting for the "lesser of two evils" and, in truth, they are looking for an alternative.

It is obvious to me that aligning Libertarians with the extremists of either the Republican Party (e.g. Rand Paul) or the Democratic Party (e.g. Hillary Clinton) would be the worst possible move for libertarians.

I've read studies in the past that indicate the majority of Americans are fiscal conservatives and social liberals which aligns with the basic principles of the libertarian political ideology.

In a real sense they are "classic liberals" as opposed to "neo-classic liberals" (i.e. "Classic liberal" doesn't demand minimalistic government but "neo-classic liberal" does). In short Americans want a government that addresses the problems of America even if that requires a little bit larger government than a 'minimalistic" government that fails to address the problems. They do agree that the government is too large but want responsible and not irresponsible reductions in the size of the government.

They also want a fiscally responsible government that pays for the authorized expenditures of Congress. They want the accomplished by the responsible reduction of expenditures as well as necessary tax revisions to generate the required revenue to eliminate deficit spending. Most would like to see "fair" tax code revisions that result in: 1 - Impose the tax burden relative to income, and; 2 - Tax policies that benefit the bottom half of income earners that can't afford to pay much in taxation to begin with. (Of note the Tea Party opposes all of this)

These Independents also want civil rights for the people. They approve of same-sex marriage. they approve of the basic criteria of Roe v Wade, they want immigration reform, they want the US to use diplomacy as opposed to war in addressing international disputes.

Much of what the Independents want is what the Libertarian Party offers in it's party platform and statements on the issues already. We need a candidate that can express how the Libertarian position on the issues can be beneficial and responsibly addressed over time.

Backing either a Democrat or a Republican would be the worst mistake the Libertarian Party could make, period.
  
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Re: Should Libertarians run a candidate for President or?
Reply #9 - Apr 4th, 2014 at 3:31pm
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Shiva_TD wrote on Apr 4th, 2014 at 11:31am:
It is obvious to me that aligning Libertarians with the extremists of either the Republican Party (e.g. Rand Paul) or the Democratic Party (e.g. Hillary Clinton) would be the worst possible move for libertarians.











Libertarians are about as likely to support Hillary as they are happy about Obama.
The good part of the Republican Party, sort of a partial revival of the Goldwater wing, includes people like Rand Paul, who is appealing to a lot of libertarians, and also to those Independents who are just learning about Liberty.

Did you take courses in writing 'progressive' propaganda, or does it just come naturally to you? Perhaps it does, the 'progressive' mind does tend to be incoherent.




  
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