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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution? (Read 6588 times)
Alan Jones
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Re: Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution?
Reply #70 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 10:33pm
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Again…what? If I establish a colony on the moon and invite fellow Rothbardians to join me, what the heck does the fact that is still aggression on earth have to do with anything? If a community exists that is, in principle (in law), "aggression-free", the fact people commit aggression elsewhere has nothing to do with anything. Even if somebody commits aggression within the community, what does that have to do with anything? Obviously a Rothbardian community has organizations in place to secure property and resolve disputes. What are you saying?

I'm not saying anything about a colony on the moon, or any location not currently inhabited, or a Rothbardian community. I was referring to areas currently inhabited, currently containing private property, and currently containing a lot of socialists that want to steal that property. The same areas that anarchists want to be free of any state.

You're really going to pretend you were talking about starting a colony on the moon? If so, I'll pretend that I was using the term "minarchist" to refer to a colony on my own private asteroid.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution?
Reply #71 - Sep 20th, 2014 at 9:57am
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LOL, didn't you just get through admitting exactly the opposite in other threads? What happened to, "it's obvious that taxation is aggression"???

Congress is given the power to declare war too. It's a big improvement on the traditional power of an individual Sovereign to declare war. But yes, it's definitely an "aggressive" power.
And the limits on the taxing power, that Direct taxes must be apportioned and Indirect taxes must be uniform is a big improvement over unlimited taxing powers. But yes, it's definitely an "aggressive" power.
State governments under the Constitution have the power to arrest, try and imprison people. Yes, that's an "aggressive" power too. But it comes with protections, so it also is a big improvement over the power of a Sovereign to imprison (or simply execute) anyone at will.

A "government" with no "aggressive" powers at all can not exist, which is what you claim to want anyway, anarchy. And you claim it will work out well because with the coming of anarchy, "aggression" will disappear from the earth.  All the current large, powerful and unconstrained 'progressive' governments will simply disappear! Poof! Paradise! Aggressive people will be taken up with them, Poof! It will be like the Rapture! Nobody will be left on earth except followers of the NAP, by magic!
  
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Dissident Right
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Re: Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution?
Reply #72 - Sep 20th, 2014 at 10:11am
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 10:33pm:
I was referring to areas currently inhabited, currently containing private property, and currently containing a lot of socialists that want to steal that property. The same areas that anarchists want to be free of any state.

And??? If a bunch of anarchists voluntarily band together to protect their property from socialists…does that "bother" you?

I'm just trying to figure out what point you are trying to make. Don't blame me for trying to clarify your incomprehensible "zero aggression" whatever.

Jeff wrote on Sep 20th, 2014 at 9:57am:
A "government" with no "aggressive" powers at all can not exist

I've already disproved that half a dozen times in as many threads.

Jeff wrote on Sep 20th, 2014 at 9:57am:
And you claim it will work out well because with the coming of anarchy, "aggression" will disappear from the earth.

No one has claimed that, crackpot.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution?
Reply #73 - Sep 20th, 2014 at 10:29am
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And??? If a bunch of anarchists voluntarily band together to protect their property from socialists…does that "bother" you?



I've already disproved that half a dozen times in as many threads.


Historically, people "banded together" to protect themselves from outside aggression. As the "bands" grew into civilized societies, government was seen as the most effective means of providing for the common defense, mainly because peoples without government were overrun, conquered and destroyed.
Do I want to return to the stone age, or the Middle Ages? No.
I don't have any problem with people making provisions for defense against aggression, but I really hope we don't reach the point where the world is once again composed of warring tribes, which will inevitably lead, in any case, to the formation of governments and nation states.
Why are anarchist "examples" always tribal?

I guess I missed where you "proved" that a government can exist without any power of taxation. Did you give an example? Or was it a purely theoretical "proof"?
  
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Alan Jones
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Re: Don't almost all libertarians support a kind of income redistribution?
Reply #74 - Sep 20th, 2014 at 5:22pm
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And??? If a bunch of anarchists voluntarily band together to protect their property from socialists…does that "bother" you?

No, and I'd wish them luck. But you're referring to something now that has been tried repeatedly. How has that worked out around the world?
  
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