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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons (Read 2958 times)
Jeff
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #10 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 3:42pm
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freeforall wrote on Sep 15th, 2014 at 6:42pm:
When I say those that 'want to be homeless' I guess I'm referring to those who have become used to the lifestyle, be it sleeping in public places, or begging for change or what have you.  

There have always been vagabonds, drifters, hobos, bums and vagrants, people who have chosen to be homeless. Communities have always wanted to move them along to somewhere else. It's the judgement of the people, and it's been remarkably consistent over time and place.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #11 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 3:45pm
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You probably shouldn't try to create a libertarian community unless it's filled with people who are ideologically homogenous.

A libertarian society is created when people are allowed to be free, for instance by limiting the power of government, and tasking the government with protecting lives, liberty and property. Such a society allows tremendous diversity, and benefits from it. 'Progressives' make large and important contributions, they just aren't allowed to tell everybody what to do.
  

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Dissident Right
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #12 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 4:27pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2014 at 3:45pm:
Such a society allows tremendous diversity, and benefits from it. 'Progressives' make large and important contributions, they just aren't allowed to tell everybody what to do.

Their only contribution is to undermine society: secretly de-education your children, promote ever-less-subtle lies about history, morality, and truth, and bully their opposition into silence by any means necessary.

A society that integrates progressives is a society that's doomed.

A society that takes every measure possible, short of actual aggression, to suppress and exclude progressives and their hateful views and despicable methods, that is a society which has a fighting chance.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #13 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 6:56pm
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Their only contribution is to undermine society: secretly de-education your children, promote ever-less-subtle lies about history, morality, and truth, and bully their opposition into silence by any means necessary.

A society that integrates progressives is a society that's doomed.

A society that takes every measure possible, short of actual aggression, to suppress and exclude progressives and their hateful views and despicable methods, that is a society which has a fighting chance.

You're an idiot and a bigot. Human values of compassion, sharing and community are necessary to any civilized society.
  

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Dissident Right
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #14 - Sep 17th, 2014 at 11:19am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2014 at 6:56pm:
You're an idiot and a bigot. Human values of compassion, sharing and community are necessary to any civilized society.

Those are not "progressive" values any more than they are conservative or Christian or natural values.

Of course I'm the opposite of a bigot. My enlightened views on progressives have come only after a study of progressive behavior and a study of what that behavior, left unchecked, leads to.

Get your head out of the sand.
  
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stevea
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #15 - Sep 17th, 2014 at 11:48am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2014 at 6:56pm:
You're an idiot and a bigot. Human values of compassion, sharing and community are necessary to any civilized society.


Maybe you're the idiot & bigot for presuming that 'Progrssives' hold an exclusive  franchise on compassion, sharing & community.  The problem is not that Progressives lack good INTENTIONS, it's that their prescriptions are so foolish, simplistic and ultimately harmful.

Progressives believe in positive rights, such as the UN declaration that people have aright to a job and a home.  This claim  should logically imply they someone else has an obligation to provide a home and a job - but that ugly reality is hand-waved away by these utopians and the obligation falls to their main actor - government (force).

Progressives developed a welfare state that keeps entire sub-populations dependent on government and prevents self-realization.

Progressives want "free" public education, but then insist on setting a political curriculum, and allowing monopolistic unions to manage these; ultimately creating little more than a warehouse for children that destroys human potential and ruins lives by force.

Progressive so believe in the positive right for birth control, that they force others people to pay for what they believe is murder.

In many cases Progressiveness of the 21st century is little more than a happy path toward a totalitaran society.  They see no problem or challenge that doesn't require more government and more regulation and more force.  They dismiss any alternative views or positions as invalid.

==

The original progressive movements of the 19th/20th century was responsible for the eugenics movement that resulting in forced sterilizations and control of inferior peoples and ultimately Germanys Aryan views that permitted murder of these "inferiors".

The modern Progressives are very big on claiming "the science is settled" (a nonsense concept) wrt catastrophic climatic fears, and can only accept big government 'smaller footprint'  restrictions as the only way to address the issue - despite that fact that numerous practical proposals to change the earths albedo. 

On the political front we see these same Progressive "brown shirts" shout down any alternative opinions with spurious claims of racism or sexism or ...  IOW they prevent any political discussion that diverges from their own views.

==

The Progressive foundation - that "science" (by their distorted meaning) or some politicized and mythical claims for human progress justifies reducing the rights of others, is horrific.  Sometimes this is as relatively benign as aggressive "do-gooderism", based on the view that Progressives know what is best for others and have some right to act on that belief (say by forcibly taking your money to pay for 'schools' that forcibly ruin the lives of others).  At other times it's that these other others don't deserve the same rights (therefore can be dismissed, shouted-down, politically disenfranchised, sterilized or murdered).  These are two inseparable sides of the same coin and always based on the concept that some ppl are inferior (to the Progressives) and that they therefore have a right to agress.

I won't but mention the damage that their redistribution for "equality of outcomes" causes economically.


The road to hell has been repeatedly and continues to be paved with Progressivist intentions.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #16 - Sep 17th, 2014 at 4:00pm
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stevea wrote on Sep 17th, 2014 at 11:48am:
Maybe you're the idiot & bigot for presuming that 'Progrssives' hold an exclusive  franchise on compassion, sharing & community. 

I never said that or implied it.
It's pure 'progressive' slander that libertarians are cold heartless people, who would watch babies starve it the streets in winter.
  

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stevea
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #17 - Sep 17th, 2014 at 4:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2014 at 4:00pm:
I never said that or implied it..


Maybe you should re-read your "Reply #13". where you certainly implied it, else your post contains a massive non sequiteur.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #18 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 8:22am
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stevea wrote on Sep 17th, 2014 at 4:46pm:
Maybe you should re-read your "Reply #13". where you certainly implied it, else your post contains a massive non sequiteur.

"Human values of compassion, sharing and community are necessary to any civilized society."

That's what I said in my "Reply #13".
How does this imply that only 'progressives' possess these human values?
My point was, people should not be excluded from society or from government because of their beliefs. Instead, government should be limited so that the beliefs of those elected, appointed and hired by government cannot be imposed on the population at large.
  

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Re: Private towns or neighborhoods and the tragedy of the commons
Reply #19 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 4:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 8:22am:
How does this imply that only 'progressives' possess these human values?

So far you've given no evidence that progressives actually do possess these values. They don't. They build dehumanized societies where people who need mercy and forgiveness are either further raped and destroyed or turned into meaningless statistics by a careless, hostile bureaucracy.

Quote:
My point was, people should not be excluded from society or from government because of their beliefs. Instead, government should be limited so that the beliefs of those elected, appointed and hired by government cannot be imposed on the population at large.

Been there, done that. Epic fail. It is infinitely obvious that when people with evil ideologies are allowed to integrate into a society, they ultimately change that society and make it evil like them.
  
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