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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Wealth inequality (Read 3504 times)
Jeff
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #20 - Oct 10th, 2015 at 4:14pm
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jzk wrote on Oct 10th, 2015 at 2:59pm:
Sure it does.  The free market rewards those that are able to bring products and services to the market efficiently.  Some will be better at this than others, and they will reap the rewards.  The better question is: so what?  So what if my neighbor makes ten times as much as me as long as I make more than I would otherwise have been able?



Yes, i agree. I worded that poorly. Wealth inequality is a fact of reality. It can't be eliminated.
But to "maintain" wealth inequality (meaning to use the power of government to make sure rich people stay rich) requires government action. And rich people are often willing to buy government action if they think it will help them stay rich, or get richer. It's a reason I always argue for limited government, one without the power to transfer wealth or grant favors.
  
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Raul
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #21 - Oct 10th, 2015 at 5:20pm
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I think the phrase  "income inequality" is nothing but a  big fat lie.
It's typical of how the left uses language to create problems where none exists.

If Joe Blow doesn't have a dollar it is Joe Blow's fault and his problem. Not mine.

The phrase  connotes that there is some level of equality that is needed and of course that stages the leap that government should handle it by stealing from people to  alleviate the supposed inequity.

So by telling a vile little lie which, standing alone, harmed no one and thus garnered no objection they launched a whole platform.

The power of small words used in bad faith. 

  
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jzk
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #22 - Oct 10th, 2015 at 5:27pm
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Agreed.  Furthermore, the the idea of the market is to make the pie bigger with almost every transaction.  There is no need for the government to move the pie around because everyone can make their own.

Jeff wrote on Oct 10th, 2015 at 4:14pm:
Yes, i agree. I worded that poorly. Wealth inequality is a fact of reality. It can't be eliminated.
But to "maintain" wealth inequality (meaning to use the power of government to make sure rich people stay rich) requires government action. And rich people are often willing to buy government action if they think it will help them stay rich, or get richer. It's a reason I always argue for limited government, one without the power to transfer wealth or grant favors.

  
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jzk
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #23 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 7:24am
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What you say is true.  However, it is even more in bed with Public employee unions that protect elite upper middle class wages at the disproportionate expense of the poor people.

Less government = less interference with the market.

Once we stop interfering with the market, there will still be wealth "inequality" because people are simply not equal.  However, even the poorest in a capitalist free society don't starve and usually have things like cell phones, refrigeration, etc.

Jeff wrote on Sep 21st, 2014 at 6:47pm:
It's just how our current economic system works. Whether you call it Mercantilism, crony capitalism, the "third way" or fascism doesn't matter.
Our government is in bed with big corporations. Didn't you know this? How could you not notice?
Expect more of the same.

  
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BobK71
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #24 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 11:19pm
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freeforall wrote on Sep 21st, 2014 at 8:37am:
The rising discrepancy in proportional income inequality between corporate executives and their workers.  It's notoriously derided by leftists as being unacceptable and requiring government intervention.  I suspect most libertarians don't care about it, saying it's reflective of the market.  In the absence of government what do you think would happen to it?  I say it would decrease.


Inequality is a bi-product of centrally planned money and finance, which we all live under in "free market economies."

One way to look at it is that, when money and quasi-money financial assets are being issued all the time (primarily to benefit the political and financial elites,) the elites must have inequality, one way or another.  If the newly issued wealth was distributed evenly, the resulting inflation would undermine confidence in the value of money and erode the elites' power.

More specifically, in the last two decades or so, the flood of financial asset issuance has created financial instability, and Western elites have always sought to contain the economic pain from financial busts by issuing more money and debt to stimulate the economy.  This is in effect propping up the values of financial assets artificially, and since these assets are held mostly be the already-rich, these actions increase inequality.

In effect, the Western central banks are keeping the lucky people very rich, so the rest of the population can at least survive from the whimsical purchases and investments made by the rich.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #25 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 9:24am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 12th, 2015 at 11:19pm:
Inequality is a bi-product of centrally planned money and finance, which we all live under in "free market economies."

One way to look at it is that, when money and quasi-money financial assets are being issued all the time (primarily to benefit the political and financial elites,) the elites must have inequality, one way or another.  If the newly issued wealth was distributed evenly, the resulting inflation would undermine confidence in the value of money and erode the elites' power.

More specifically, in the last two decades or so, the flood of financial asset issuance has created financial instability, and Western elites have always sought to contain the economic pain from financial busts by issuing more money and debt to stimulate the economy.  This is in effect propping up the values of financial assets artificially, and since these assets are held mostly be the already-rich, these actions increase inequality.

In effect, the Western central banks are keeping the lucky people very rich, so the rest of the population can at least survive from the whimsical purchases and investments made by the rich.

Yep. It's a very old idea, to have a powerful Sovereign government that gets rich by controlling money, banks (and everything else) and granting favors to cronies who can generate large incomes through government granted monopolies or selective tariffs or selective taxes. Mercantilism is one name for it. Crony capitalism is the new name, but it's still just Kings and Royalty getting rich by denying everyone else opportunities.
  
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jzk
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #26 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 11:34am
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As you say, the government creates wealth inequality all the time.  It does it with minimum wage which protects the unions at the expense of the unskilled worker.  It does it with crony capitalism.  It does it with the public service union that negotiates 70,000 salaries for city garbage workers.

However, even if that were eliminated, which it should be, there would still be wealth inequality.  Why?  Because people are different.  Some will earn more than others.  Some will try harder than others.  So what?  Why is that bad?

Jeff wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 9:24am:
Yep. It's a very old idea, to have a powerful Sovereign government that gets rich by controlling money, banks (and everything else) and granting favors to cronies who can generate large incomes through government granted monopolies or selective tariffs or selective taxes. Mercantilism is one name for it. Crony capitalism is the new name, but it's still just Kings and Royalty getting rich by denying everyone else opportunities.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #27 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 5:28pm
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jzk wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 11:34am:
However, even if that were eliminated, which it should be, there would still be wealth inequality.  Why?  Because people are different.  Some will earn more than others.  Some will try harder than others.  So what?  Why is that bad?


The Opposition is the most 'progressive' lizard on the forum, and he can tell you, clearly and concisely, why "capitalism", if allowed to operate "unregulated", will create a permanent underclass.
His answer won't make the least bit of sense, except to lizards.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #28 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 10:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 9:24am:
Yep. It's a very old idea, to have a powerful Sovereign government that gets rich by controlling money, banks (and everything else) and granting favors to cronies who can generate large incomes through government granted monopolies or selective tariffs or selective taxes. Mercantilism is one name for it. Crony capitalism is the new name, but it's still just Kings and Royalty getting rich by denying everyone else opportunities.


As opposed as we both are to using state power to inflate the values of financial assets and benefiting their issuers, there is a perverse kind of logic to the whole process.

This system was at its most blatant (crony capitalism happening literally as you describe) during the era when the Dutch, French and British states were competing for imperial power.  If you didn't use this financial tool, someone else would use it and you lost power and wealth as a country.  It was a performance enhancing drug that, we have to admit, did work to eliminate your competition in a world that didn't understand enough not to use it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Wealth inequality
Reply #29 - Oct 14th, 2015 at 9:26am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 10:23pm:
As opposed as we both are to using state power to inflate the values of financial assets and benefiting their issuers, there is a perverse kind of logic to the whole process.

This system was at its most blatant (crony capitalism happening literally as you describe) during the era when the Dutch, French and British states were competing for imperial power.  If you didn't use this financial tool, someone else would use it and you lost power and wealth as a country.  It was a performance enhancing drug that, we have to admit, did work to eliminate your competition in a world that didn't understand enough not to use it.

Crony capitalism/mercantilism worked better (and still works better) than no capitalism at all. But economic freedom works best.
  
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