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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) LP says get out of Iraq and Syria (Read 30901 times)
Don_G
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #590 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 3:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 12:46pm:
You mean like calling anyone who supported Trump maggots and worms and slugs?


I didn't think it bothered you so much Jeff, but if it does then I can stop the namecalling too when you want to change this place.
  
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kaz
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #591 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 3:11pm
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Don_G wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 3:09pm:
I didn't think it bothered you so much Jeff, but if it does then I can stop the namecalling too when you want to change this place.


So you want to change this place by getting Jeff to stop calling names and then you'll consider doing the same.  Jeff's right, you're a dolt
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #592 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 7:35am
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kaz
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #593 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:57am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 7:35am:


Is there anyone who didn't know that?  Support for the Saudi and other oppressive regimes are yet another reason we should not have troops in the Middle East at all.  As long as we are there, we have to work with those governments and that inevitably leads to abetting their tyranny over their own people.

Imagine if the English had the French build military basis across the country who prevented us from rising and overthrowing our rulers and the French did it to exploit our natural resources.  We would rightly hate them both
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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stevea
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #594 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 10:39am
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kaz wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:57am:
Is there anyone who didn't know that?  Support for the Saudi and other oppressive regimes are yet another reason we should not have troops in the Middle East at all. ....


Hmm - well - The Saudis want a relationship w/ us to stabilize their disgusting regime, OTOH I don't buy the argument that the US has that much interest in them, except as a Geo-political counterbalance to other parties.  Iran is directly behind both the Yemeni uprising and the recent Qatari problems, and the US opposes Iran more than it supports Saudis.

There is an excellent case to be made that the US&UK via Aramco imposed the brutal shah of Iran on that nation ~1953, and then their popular movement overthrew the Shah, and they naturally began to seek ways to prevent more intrusions by foreign nations (like developing missiles & nukes).

--

Europe and China have a LOT more interest in Saudi oil than the US.  It's way too simplistic to suggest this is about oil.  That's just part of the picture.

--

In a related item - note that Cuba is orchestrating the Venezuelan enslavement taking place as I type.  Russia forgave a huge load of Cuban debt, and is working w/ Cuba to develop offshore oil.


The main picture is that Russia is creating a system to exert much greater control over the worlds supply of oil.  A new cartel I imagine.  That's not desirable for anyone outside the cartel.


  
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kaz
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #595 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 11:00am
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stevea wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 10:39am:
Europe and China have a LOT more interest in Saudi oil than the US.  It's way too simplistic to suggest this is about oil.  That's just part of the picture.

Never said it was only about oil.  But don't be so naive as to think that without oil we would be there, we wouldn't.  Just like we're not in similar hell holes in Asia and Africa where there isn't oil

stevea wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 10:39am:
In a related item - note that Cuba is orchestrating the Venezuelan enslavement taking place as I type.  Russia forgave a huge load of Cuban debt, and is working w/ Cuba to develop offshore oil.

The main picture is that Russia is creating a system to exert much greater control over the worlds supply of oil.  A new cartel I imagine.  That's not desirable for anyone outside the cartel


It used to be that OPEC controlled the world's supply and could and did use that power.  Now with Russia and the US, OPEC is down to about a quarter the supply.  Russia is increasing supply which reduces prices.  No one controls supply enough anymore to use it as the weapon OPEC did.  And Russia/Cuba may be the only ones who could get Venezuela online now producing and reducing worldwide prices.

Note Russia does have Europe by the short hairs on energy, but that is not an energy supply issue, it's an energy distribution issue.  Russia has the only pipelines into Europe, which are the fastest and cheapest way to distribute energy.

The Gulf States want to build a pipeline, but it would go through Syria.  Russia is well aware of the implications of that and it is one of the main reasons they are so invested in Syria.  Another of course is their massive Naval base there, it's not the only one.

Try not to fall into the trap of thinking there is only one reason for things, that is typically not the case
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #596 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 11:15am
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stevea wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 10:39am:
  ..............., OTOH I don't buy the argument that the US has that much interest in them, except as a Geo-political counterbalance to other parties.



More correctly, you should have said: The US has a huge interest in them, as a counter-balance to other parties.

I like your style on this forum. You attempt to make a reasoned argument and keep your cool while doing it. It could get contagious!

  
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Tom Palven
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #597 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 10:30am
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Don_G wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 11:15am:
More correctly, you should have said: The US has a huge interest in them, as a counter-balance to other parties.

I like your style on this forum. You attempt to make a reasoned argument and keep your cool while doing it. It could get contagious!




Don, I don't know if you're familiar with Debbie Lusignan, "The Sane Progressive."

She's was a Sanders supporter who favors a guaranteed minimum income and one-payer health care, but I like her.

She is in top form and spot-on in this rant in which she calls for critical thinking and warns against divisiveness.

It's long.  You can get the gist of it in the first 3 minutes, but I think it's worth sitting down with a pot of coffee or a bottle of wine and watching the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqETSUDFAao
  
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kaz
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #598 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 11:16am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 10:30am:
She's was a Sanders supporter who favors a guaranteed minimum income and one-payer health care, but I like her


There you go with your socialist love of Bernie again.  Remember how you kept saying the DNC screwed him and you'd never vote for Hillary, then you voted for Hillary?  Then again Sanders said he's never endorse her and he did, I suppose you were still following your leader
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: LP says get out of Iraq and Syria
Reply #599 - Aug 8th, 2017 at 12:43pm
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kaz wrote on Aug 8th, 2017 at 11:16am:
There you go with your socialist love of Bernie again.  Remember how you kept saying the DNC screwed him and you'd never vote for Hillary, then you voted for Hillary?  Then again Sanders said he's never endorse her and he did, I suppose you were still following your leader



Forward!

Troll!

Hut, hut, hut, hut...

Grin
  
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