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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine (Read 6343 times)
Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #50 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:14am
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Tom Palven wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 3:17am:
No, if you follow the money the US aids Israel and Egypt, and also provides moral support to Saudi Arabia.

Imho the CIA and State Dept. are still smoldering over the fact that the Iranians managed to kick out the US-installed puppet Shah around 1980.

PS:   Money talks.  Now Germany has arrested a journalist on behalf of the Egyptian military dictatorship.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/06/21/germany-arrested-al-jazeera-journalist-for-eg...

Reuters doesn't seem to be reporting this.  (And so it goes.)


More on the Pentagon's dear friend:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/01/us-egypt-sisi-economy-insight-idUSKCN0...
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #51 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 9:01am
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #52 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:05pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Jul 1st, 2015 at 9:01am:

It pisses me off. All my life, I wanted to visit Egypt. Now, I'm retired and wouldn't go to Egypt unless I was kidnapped and sent to some "black" torture camp.

When I first learned about Egypt, tourists were welcome and terrorists were in Libya. OK, pirates.

Yes, I'm bitter. I blame 'progressives' and their long time interventionist foreign policies for preventing me from visiting Egypt. And Greece. And Iran. etc.

I also blame "Islamists", people who would horrify Mohammed.
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #53 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 9:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:05pm:
It pisses me off. All my life, I wanted to visit Egypt. Now, I'm retired and wouldn't go to Egypt unless I was kidnapped and sent to some "black" torture camp.

When I first learned about Egypt, tourists were welcome and terrorists were in Libya. OK, pirates.

Yes, I'm bitter. I blame 'progressives' and their long time interventionist foreign policies for preventing me from visiting Egypt. And Greece. And Iran. etc.

I also blame "Islamists", people who would horrify Mohammed.


This is a loaded question, Jeff, but wasn't Hillary Clinton Secretary of State when CENTCOM and the CIA either assisted or failed to prevent the al-Sisi coup of the democratically-elected government of Egypt, and do you hold her blameless?

Do you hold the Obama administration blameless for assisting the royal elite Wahhabi attack on Yemen?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #54 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 8:57am
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I said, "I blame 'progressives'."
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #55 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 9:48am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 8:57am:
I said, "I blame 'progressives'."


If not Hillary and Obama, do you think that Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the neocons including the State Department and CIA share any of the blame?

Did the mess in the Mid-East just happen without any US government involvement except for some nebulous group called "progressives."
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #56 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 4:34pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 9:48am:
If not Hillary and Obama, do you think that Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the neocons including the State Department and CIA share any of the blame?

Did the mess in the Mid-East just happen without any US government involvement except for some nebulous group called "progressives."

What, you don't think Obama and Hillary are 'progressives'?
Bush and Cheny are 'progressives' too. 'Progressive' control of our government, especially the Dept. of State goes way back, to FDR at least. You didn't know that?

BTW, saying 'progressives' are "some nebulous group" is ingenuous at best, indicative of your ignorance, or mendacious at worst, indicative of your complicity.
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #57 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 3:17am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 4:34pm:
What, you don't think Obama and Hillary are 'progressives'?
Bush and Cheny are 'progressives' too. 'Progressive' control of our government, especially the Dept. of State goes way back, to FDR at least. You didn't know that?

BTW, saying 'progressives' are "some nebulous group" is ingenuous at best, indicative of your ignorance, or mendacious at worst, indicative of your complicity.


What I'm saying is that the problem with US foreign policy is not just "the progressives" or the "neoconservatives." 

The monstrosities called the US State Department, the NSA, the CIA, CENTCOM, etc. that have led to about 200 US military actions since 1945
http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-War-Peace-How-Hated/dp/156025405X/ref=sr_1_1?s=b...
including 7 million tons
of bombs being dropped on Vietnam and the Shock and Awe on Iraq, have been created by a huge bipartisan Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex effort,

and this effort goes to support an elite royal class in Saudi Arabia
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=george+bush+&ie=UTF-8&rl...
and Kuwait, and elsewhere, and elite military classes in Egypt and elsewhere, which cannot possibly be blamed on "progressivism."

Imho, saying that  US imperialism is caused by progressives is like saying that Nazi imperialism was caused by German Ladies Garden Clubs.



  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #58 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 5:44am
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Jeff
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Re: Ron Paul on ISIS and Ukraine
Reply #59 - Jul 8th, 2015 at 8:30am
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Tom Palven wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 3:17am:
What I'm saying is that the problem with US foreign policy is not just "the progressives" or the "neoconservatives." 

The monstrosities called the US State Department, the NSA, the CIA, CENTCOM, etc. that have led to about 200 US military actions since 1945...

'Progressives' have controlled the Dept. of State at least since FDR's time. You don't think that has anything to do with our 'progressive' foreign policy?

Let me tell you again what a 'progressive' is. It's anyone who thinks the power of government can (and should) be used to make things "better".
'Progressives' are the opposite of libertarians, who believe that government actions inevitably make things worse, and that government should be limited to a few essential functions, which almost never includes trying to "improve" the rest of the world. Experience has shown that such attempts don't actually lead to any improvements, certainly not over any long term, and they always have bad unintended consequences.
  
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