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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise? (Read 6467 times)
Vexer
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Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Jun 27th, 2015 at 4:35am
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This seems to be a given fact, in the minds of our average Libertarian that Private everything is better than Public anything.  It's a cornerstone of their (your) philosophy.

But what if this was wrong?

At this point, 90% of the three readers that read this will get out their text-knives and start thinking about how to rebutt me, mostly by informing me how stupid I am because I smell like a goat. Which is, as always, very convincing.

For you other 10%, what about this:

Is there any objective way to show that Private Enterprise is in any way better, or more Efficient that Public (Government) Enterprise?

  
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genepool
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #1 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 4:51am
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It's right and wrong at the same time.

Most corporations are done by planned economy. The CEO plan everything and decides things.

Most deals in free market is "fair". I said most. Why? Deals that are not fair doesn't grow. If a food price is over price, another dealer will cut down the price. There are always competitor selling better product at more affordable task. This very meritocratic feature is why free market is mostly fair.

However, there are plenty of exceptions. You can be stupid buyers. There are semi monopoly in hospitals. Once you're in, they can sell you anything at any price they wish. In schools, professors decide textbook you can buy so most college textbooks are expensive. Yada yada yada

Deals you try to make yourself without contract enforcement isn't doing well. I got burned many times at blackhatworld.com. The mod simply delete evidence that I publicly set up.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #2 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 9:59pm
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I'm a totalitarian but my answer is mixed. I think there's a good reason that free market will outperform government if one is spending its own money and the other isn't. Obviously if you subsidise a corporation with tax money, it will become at least as wasteful, having all the same greed and none of the accountability to the People. Do you have a right to be upset when Obama takes million-dollar vacations once a week? I think you do; it's your money. But when the CEO of a private company does it? Nope.

I would like to see a free market. I have twofold doubts about it (once on the end of it even being possible, twice on the end of it functioning as well as people say) but I genuinely want to be wrong. They say America was very free to start with, and I know it worked well, I just think guildism is bound to happen. As long as lobbying is legal (and it's just free speech, really) money will buy power, and power will crush competition, so I think free markets naturally die. They tend to work well while they flourish, and I'd like to see one stick around.

If I get proven wrong, I get to live in a better world. If the world goes to shit, even better: I get the I-told-you-sos. Win-win.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Alan Jones
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #3 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:13pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 9:59pm:
They say America was very free to start with, and I know it worked well, I just think guildism is bound to happen. As long as lobbying is legal (and it's just free speech, really) money will buy power....

Power can't be bought from those who don't have power.

And given that people who have and sell power would never outlaw buying it, that's means that a more accurate statement would be:

As long as politicians have power, money will buy power.

Or perhaps better put: Power held by politicians is power for sale.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #4 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:32pm
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Alan Jones wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:13pm:
Power can't be bought from those who don't have power.


Isn't that just supply and demand, though? There's definitely a demand for that sort of power for sale! The law can be changed, and the constitution amended. Politicians will give themselves the power if they know they can sell it.

I agree with the rest of what you said. And I think it's inevitable. But I really, really don't want to be right.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Alan Jones
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2015 at 11:11pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:32pm:
Isn't that just supply and demand, though?

No, it's not just supply and demand: the product being sold is violence. There's demand for sex slaves, too. And body organs. And hit men.

The Opposition wrote on Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:32pm:
There's definitely a demand for that sort of power for sale!

Sure. If there wasn't, there would be no need for libertarians.
  
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genepool
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #6 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 3:40am
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I think we should ask a slightly different questions.

Benefit for who?

Microsoft and apple sells operating system.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs can vote that operating system should be heavily subsidized.

However, we got millions of operating system customers that want the best operating system at the cheapest price.

So in case of software, bread, books, or pretty much anything customers buy free market would work best for customers. Democracy leads to free market here.

When suppliers are majority, like workforce, democracy works the other way around. Teacher unions means bad teachers can't be fired. Those who cannot get a job will be given one. It's no longer free market.

Democracy doesn't lead to free market when suppliers have huge number.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #7 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 9:28am
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genepool wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 3:40am:
Democracy doesn't lead to free market when suppliers have huge number.

genepool, you should refer back to Alan's excellent answer. Study it until you understand it, and much of your confusion will disappear.

Democracy leads to tyranny and the violation of individual rights.

Bill Gates gets one vote in our Constitutional republic. He can't infuluence anybody with his one vote. He does have a lot of money, so he can buy influence from the government if, and only if, the government has power to help his business.
Our Constitution hasn't given the government any power to help his business, which should make it senseless and a waste of money to lobby in Washington, but, since the government has usurped the power to control our economy, they can help any company that pays them enough to do it, and they do.

Prior to the usurpation of the power to control our economy, about the only thing the government could do to help private businesses was to grant them land, so the only thing businesses lobbied for was to receive land grants. There weren't many lobbyists in those days
  

"Free hate speech"
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genepool
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #8 - Jun 30th, 2015 at 4:05am
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Democracy has double edge

On some cases people tend to vote for more pro market stand
On other cases people tend to vote against libertarianism.

I should give another sample. Importing product from china is cheaper that benefit large number of consumers. It's also more libertarian and productive. Why hire expensive american if you can hire cheaper chinese laborers?

And yes, the democratic government in US allows that. We got globalization. Why? Globalization benefit 190 millions of US customers. Sure it hurts american jobs but the 10 millions american workers that could have worked as iphone laborers are outvoted by 190 million customers that are happy with cheaper iphone.

Got it?

You can import iphone from china. Can you import whore or women to US? No. It's women trafficking. Why? Because 100 million women in US don't want competitors.

That's what I mean.

In my country, phone and gas is regulated. Why? Because my country is a kleptocracy, not democracy.  It benefits the few kleptocrat. As my country becomes true democracy then regulations stop. Some regulations stay or even stronger no matter how democratic the country is.

Prostitution is actually more legal in monarchy than in democracy. In all monarchy prostitution is less enforced than in democracy.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #9 - Jun 30th, 2015 at 8:46am
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genepool wrote on Jun 30th, 2015 at 4:05am:
Democracy has double edge.
On some cases people tend to vote for more pro market stand
On other cases people tend to vote against libertarianism.

This is why it's important to limit the power of government, and to make sure that no faction can gain control of the government. The U.S. Constitution was intended to do both of these things, in part, by not being democratic.
  

"Free hate speech"
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