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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise? (Read 6469 times)
Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #20 - Jul 8th, 2015 at 6:52pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 8th, 2015 at 6:36pm:
But to be fair, even so, it's hard to keep the individual interests out. Picking juries randomly does a good job, but criminals can simply waive their right to trial by jury, defeating the purpose.

You think a lot of innocent people plead guilty? Not when they get a jury trial they don't, but under torture and threat, yes.

Maybe you're thinking of out of favor corporations that are threatened with audits etc. by powerful and unaccountable bureaucracies backed by the "Justice" Dept. They pay the extortion rather than spend years being harassed by bureaucrats and government lawyers.

Do you really not know the reason for jury trials and impartial judges and rights of appeal? Or of requirements for probable cause and reasonable cause and indictment by a grand jury?

The idea of the whole system is to serve justice by protecting individual rights. Convicting criminals is part of that, but if criminals want to plead guilty and save us money and time, that's great.
  

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Vexer
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #21 - Jul 9th, 2015 at 3:24am
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Jeff wrote:

“…every libertarian (actually every honest person) already knows that a free economy produces better results than a government controlled economy.”

How do they know this? Because people like you keep saying it?

Evidence? (Which is what the OP asked for).


“Before I'll pay any attention to any of your arguments in favor of "Government enterprise", you'll have to tell me exactly what you mean by "efficient"”

It means “better results”.

(I'm an honest person - and I know that no Capitalist economy can be considered 'free' in any sense).
  
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Dissident Right
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #22 - Jul 9th, 2015 at 8:51am
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Define "better", idiot.

Here's a definition of "better" that I might use, due to its objectivity: % of population employed in agriculture. % of average person's wages spent on food. % of average person's time spent not earning wage.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #23 - Jul 9th, 2015 at 11:25am
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Vexer wrote on Jul 9th, 2015 at 3:24am:
Jeff wrote:

“…every libertarian (actually every honest person) already knows that a free economy produces better results than a government controlled economy.”

How do they know this? Because people like you keep saying it?


(I'm an honest person - and I know that no Capitalist economy can be considered 'free' in any sense).

Honest people know it because they can see that economic freedom produces prosperity. Countries with the most economic freedom have the most well off people. Honest people have compared East Germany under a Communist government to West Germany under a "capitalist" government. Or N. Korea to S. Korea.

Try to explain to me how economic freedom restricts people's freedom.
« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2015 at 8:15am by Jeff »  

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Alan Jones
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #24 - Jul 9th, 2015 at 6:44pm
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Vexer wrote on Jul 9th, 2015 at 3:24am:
(I'm an honest person - and I know that no Capitalist economy can be considered 'free' in any sense).

What would you call an economy with unrestricted free enterprise, if not capitalism?

I agree that the term "capitalism" is confusing, because socialists use it to mean both free enterprise (as advocated by libertarians) and something very different (that they argue against), so they can pretend those are the same thing. So what's an alternative word (or words) to mean free enterprise?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #25 - Jul 11th, 2015 at 4:14pm
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Alan Jones wrote on Jul 9th, 2015 at 6:44pm:
What would you call an economy with unrestricted free enterprise, if not capitalism?

I agree that the term "capitalism" is confusing, because socialists use it to mean both free enterprise (as advocated by libertarians) and something very different (that they argue against), so they can pretend those are the same thing. So what's an alternative word (or words) to mean free enterprise?

As you surely know Alan, economic freedom, or liberty.

This is a strange forum. I think it's 'owned' by the national government and run by academics. I just can't figure out why...

Opposition and DR ( and Ruby etc,) have always seemed to be scripted to me. Who would be writing the scripts?
People selected by Valerie Jarret? Or would Valerie do it herself?

It would be a real hoot to talk to Valerie Herself.
 
I know, it's much more likely that they have just created roles for themselves, trying to find security in a dangerous world. Like children. Or trying to gain power over others, because they hope that will make them 'safe'. Ha! How could they be more wrong?
  

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Vexer
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #26 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 2:57am
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Dear sweet, “Dissident Right”,

…here’s something I wrote at the head of another thread that I’d started, anticipating LASER-like disection of my arguments by good-willed critical thinkers:

“At this point, 90% of the three readers that read this will get out their text-knives and start thinking about how to rebutt me, mostly by informing me how stupid I am because I smell like a goat. Which is, as always, very convincing.”

You wrote:

>> Define "better", idiot.
>> Vexer's ability converse in coherent English seems to be held, by Vexer, as a given fact.


As always, very convincing. (Ya missed the goat angle, though)


Dear Jeff, you wrote:

>>Honest people have compared East Germany under a Communist government to West Germany under a "capitalist" government. Or N. Korea to S. Korea.<<

The same Honest People have compared Mexcio, under a “Capitalist” government to Sweden. Or Uganda (a proud Captialist country) to France.

I don’t think that quoting Countries will be convinving in this context. Most grinding poverty in the world exists in very-Capitalist countries.


I know it's difficult for you all, but try to read the OP and address it, in whatever detail you can muster. Goat similes, optional.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #27 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 10:53am
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Vexer wrote on Jul 19th, 2015 at 2:57am:
The same Honest People have compared Mexcio, under a “Capitalist” government to Sweden. Or Uganda (a proud Captialist country) to France.

I don’t think that quoting Countries will be convinving in this context. Most grinding poverty in the world exists in very-Capitalist countries.

If you start by claiming that the governments of Mexico and Uganda protect economic liberty and property under governments of law, which is what "capitalism " is, anything else you say is going to be a flat lie.

You can't get any more objective than empirical evidence, but you have to be honest about it.
  

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MaxHen
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #28 - Jul 22nd, 2015 at 9:22pm
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Vexer, free-market economies will tend to produce better outcomes (from the perspective of consumers) than other economic models because producers in a free market can only generate profits when consumers voluntarily purchase their products. Under other economic systems, producers can generate profits via government subsidies, regulatory privileges, etc, and thus have less incentive to produce goods that consumers actually desire.

Furthermore, a free market allows for the greatest accumulation of productive capital (factories and other plants, productive machinery, resource extraction centers, etc) due to the absence of capital-destroying tax/regulatory burdens and inflationary money-printing.

Of course, there are other factors (natural resources, population characteristics, etc) which influence a country's standard of living, so some countries with more state intervention may possess a higher standard of living than some others with less. However, all less being equal, a free-market economy will be more productive and produce higher living standards than an interventionist one.
  
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genepool
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Re: Private enterprise is more efficient than Government enterprise?
Reply #29 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:35pm
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Under free market you are free

That means you are free to make really really good decisions.

You are also free to make really really really bad decisions.

That private court is a sample. Check http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/S/ScottvAveryClause.aspx

It is often abused by businesses that simply pick arbitration that will always be pro business.

Usually it's done by business that pick courts that will always favor the business. The customer doesn't know about the detail and think that the court picked would be fair. So they agreed to terms where they will settle disputes in private court.

However, private courts can be really good too. Government marriage court sucks. So it may make sense for two individuals to agree before hand to adjudicate their marriage in private courts.

If you give each deal equal weight. In general, most deals in free market is bad if you count the number of deals. Most deals with government is moderate. But some free market deals can be very good. Those good deals, like wallmart, then become so big.

Good deals like wallmart deals then have much bigger weight because it's done millions of time more than the other deals.

Can you agree to pay $30 for stupid acai berry deals? Yes you can. Is it free market? Yes. Is it a bad deal? Yes. But you are free NOT to take it and that's what's awesome about free market.
  
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