Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 33 34 [35] 36 37 ... 53 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened (Read 16093 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 2924
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #340 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:17pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 10:08pm:
Russia is only one of the countries the Cuban people prefer to trade with. Canada is at the top of their list because we told the US to stick their embargo and sanctions that hurt the Cuban people.

The US knows very well that it doesn't have a minute to waste on getting relations normalized with Cuba. China is already there, bigtime.

Which means that it's going to be done on Cuba's terms!

It's so comforting to know that your country is wandering aimlessly under Trump's lack of leadership. And it's going to continue for a long time yet.


Sure, the Cubans like selling you cigars.  But you're such a tiny economy you don't do much for them on the grand scale
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #341 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:29pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 11:35am:
Our Cuban Brothers and Sisters of Liberty are in trouble. It will only get tougher for them as Castro's henchmen storm the private homes where they meet.  Search warrants are not required in Cuba.  Or in any Communist country, for that matter.

At 11:00am [on Wednesday, May 31st], three members of the State Security Forces arrived at the Benjamin Franklin Libertarian Library, which is also the headquarters for the Cuban Libertarian Party. They threatened and accused us of public disorder, which is untrue from a strict perspective, because we were inside the house, completely quiet, and we were within our own private property. They said we could not leave the house nor let anyone inside. We were surrounded.

45 minutes later, more or less, a group of 15 agents specialized in murder, from the special brigade, entered our headquarters violently and attacked us while they ravished the house. Caridad (President), Heriberto (Vice-President) and Eduardo (party member) were transported to Vivac Detention, and Miguel and I were sent to Cotorro Detention Center. Written warnings were issued to each us for illicit association, which is a crime according to the criminal code. They know we are part of a political party, which is illegal. In Cuba, only the Communist Party is legal.
https://beinglibertarian.com/castro-regime-arrests-cuban-libertarian-party-membe...

https://actudirect.com/front/uploads/2017/05/received_1434962606525599-500x438.j...


Good point you're bringing up Chief. Are you prepared to hear the other side of the story and follow it through with me.

This is something that happens in other countries to which the US is opposed. They are usually communist countries.

Do you know where I'm headed with this? I think you should because you claim to be a libertarian!

I'll deviate a little off topic to make the point. The US has started an economic war with Russia which is equivalent to a declaration of war. That's because Russia allowed the people of the Crimea to decide to become a part of Russia.

The US has started over 37 wars of aggression since WW2 alone! And that includes the 2003 war against Iraq which can't be defended as being just and legal in any way.

Do I make my point? It should be easy for a libertarian! It will also offer us an opportunity to sort out the libertarian wheat from the chaff!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #342 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:33pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:17pm:
Sure, the Cubans like selling you cigars.  But you're such a tiny economy you don't do much for them on the grand scale


Right!

This is an opportunity to show your libertarian worth Kaz. Why not come along for the ride with the Chief and me. Let's see it you can rise about your US priorities to put your libertarian agenda first?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 2924
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #343 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:39pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
Right!

This is an opportunity to show your libertarian worth Kaz. Why not come along for the ride with the Chief and me. Let's see it you can rise about your US priorities to put your libertarian agenda first?


You're just babbling
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #344 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:49pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:39pm:
You're just babbling


You're just not understanding my point. There is another side that's possibly just as credible for the Chief's story on Cuba.

I think he will figure it out but for you I'll just move right to the finish line. The US is most likely involved in Cuba and attempting to foment disorder. The US track record throughout the world makes that much more likely than the Cuban government unduly limiting the rights of it's citizens.

You're going to have to start thinking like a libertarian, or at least the way libertarians proclaim they think. I't thinking that's out of the box from the usual US generated propaganda.
You can be a part of this conversation or not, it isn't going to matter.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #345 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:50pm
Print Post  
deleted

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4052
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #346 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:05pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
The US has started over 37 wars of aggression since WW2 alone! And that includes the 2003 war against Iraq which can't be defended as being just and legal in any way.

Do I make my point? It should be easy for a libertarian! It will also offer us an opportunity to sort out the libertarian wheat from the chaff!

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing where you're going with this line of reasoning. True, the US is deeply entrenched in Military Intervention abroad. The US has over 600 Military Bases scattered across the globe.  99% of Libertarians object to it.  So we're all on the same page there, it seems.

What does the 37 US wars of aggression since WW II have anything to do with Cuba?  I have stated numerous times that the trade embargo has failed, and should be lifted.

These are fundamental Libertarian principles (Free-Trade & Non-intervention).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #347 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:18pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:05pm:
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing where you're going with this line of reasoning. True, the US is deeply entrenched in Military Intervention abroad. The US has over 600 Military Bases scattered across the globe.  99% of Libertarians object to it.  So we're all on the same page there, it seems.

What does the 37 US wars of aggression since WW II have anything to do with Cuba?  I have stated numerous times that the trade embargo has failed, and should be lifted.

These are fundamental Libertarian principles (Free-Trade & Non-intervention).


Alright then, I'll take your word that you aren't understanding me.

I'm simply saying that it's at least as possible that the people arrested were people engaged in treasonous activities against the Cuban government and they were working on behalf of the US.

That's why we need to get another perspective on the whole story. Cuba has likely presented that alternative but it's not going to be published in the US. Or, maybe it has?

And the overall, I bring the libertarian perspective into the conversation because I think it's relevant. Relevant because it's real corruption within your government, which libertarians deplore.

There's too much water under the bridge between you and me to be able to think this isn't making sense with you.

However, it's not something that Jeff and Kaz are going to able to rise above and see the other story.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4052
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #348 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:34pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
I'm simply saying that it's at least as possible that the people arrested were people engaged in treasonous activities against the Cuban government and they were working on behalf of the US.

I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but this is tin-foil-hat stuff  ^  ^  ^.

There was no "treasonous activities against the Cuban government".  It was was a tiny group of individuals who love liberty and freedom.  Meeting together in someones home to support each other in a common belief.

It may interest you to know that there is a Libertarian Party in Russia too! Canada has a Libertarian Party!  But that's stuff for a different thread.   

Many Progressives fear Libertarians because our Party is growing quickly, and we share the common idea that smaller government is better. We believe Individual Liberty is a natural right and worth fighting for. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 3416
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Reply #349 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:42pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but this is tin-foil-hat stuff  ^  ^  ^.

There was no "treasonous activities against the Cuban government".  It was was a tiny gaggle of individuals who love liberty and freedom.  Meeting together in someones home to support each other in a common belief.

It may interest you to know that there is a Libertarian Party in Russia too! Canada has a Libertarian Party!  But that's stuff for a different thread.   

Many Progressives fear Libertarians because our Party is growing quickly, and we share the common idea that smaller government is better. We believe Individual Liberty is a natural right and worth fighting for. 


So now you understand what I was saying. And now you are obviously defending those who were arrested because they are supposedly libertarians. If they weren't supposedly libertarians you wouldn't be defending them.

But you don't know the truth and you don't want to entertain other possibilities, even though the US track record really demands that you do.

That's fine Chief, I've made my point and you have made yours. I would leave it at that but I'm interested enough to try to find an alternative story.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 33 34 [35] 36 37 ... 53
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Cuban And US Embassies To Be Reopened
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy