Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Communism Makes Me Sick
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Communism Makes Me Sick (Read 3205 times)
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 43769
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #10 - Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:20am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 3:53am:
Then you weren't entirely robbed of your good judgment. If you were, you couldn't possibly say for sure that drunk you wouldn't leave your porch and wreak havoc.

I have a whole family of people who are rational sober, but will drink enough alcohol that they do terrible, terrible things. My mum once ran around a parking lot with the blade out of a circular saw and smashed peoples' car windows. The rest of my family wouldn't blame her, because, "she has a disease; she's not responsible."

I fully agree that in that state, people aren't responsible. You just don't drink enough to go there. Good for you, but if you know that tipsy you will drink more, and drunk you will drink more, and fully smashed you will wreak havoc, you need to not become tipsy you. The moment you open that gate and unleash drunk you, that's aggression, exactly the same as it would be if you unleashed a rabid dog.

BTW, the last two (ungh, I have two left, not one) teas are sitting in my fridge taking up space.

Only children or people without good judgement to begin with "wreak havoc" when they are impaired by drugs, unless the drugs they take cause psychosis, in which case it was bad judgement to take them to begin with, even if the Doctor prescribed them, which is most often the case with drug induced psychosis.

Drink the tea asshole. You made a claim in public that a particular product made you sick, but you didn't have enough information to make that claim, so please, do more testing.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10045
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #11 - Oct 2nd, 2015 at 8:10am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:20am:
Only children or people without good judgement to begin with "wreak havoc" when they are impaired by drugs, unless the drugs they take cause psychosis, in which case it was bad judgement to take them to begin with, even if the Doctor prescribed them, which is most often the case with drug induced psychosis.


That's not true. There are perfectly rational people who drink and become completely rabid and devoid of judgement. It just makes it difficult that this doesn't happen to everyone. But at least the people who have been proven to be violent and destructive while drunk should not be permitted alcohol.

It is exactly like unleashing a rabid dog.

Jeff wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:20am:
Drink the tea asshole. You made a claim in public that a particular product made you sick, but you didn't have enough information to make that claim, so please, do more testing.


Hmm... Seeking and exploiting a weakness (I'm loathe to waste anything)... the constant hostility...

Looks like I have an archenemy. Bottoms up, hero.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 43769
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #12 - Oct 4th, 2015 at 9:07pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Oct 2nd, 2015 at 8:10am:
That's not true. There are perfectly rational people who drink and become completely rabid and devoid of judgement.

No, rational people with good judgement learn, as they are becoming adults, how much alcohol (or other drugs) they can use before they lose their judgment, so when they are rational adults with good judgement, they don't go beyond their limits. That's how you know they have good judgement.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
WordVillan
Libertarian Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 7th, 2015
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2015 at 3:03pm
Print Post  
Just like any other service (almost except murder etc.) ''fairness'' is a good that any consumer should be able to purchase should he want so. Therefore I quite like the idea of ''Fair Trade'' advertisements because it supplies the market with a voluntary service that guarantees certain production standards for the manufacturer should said manufacturer choose to reach out to the fair-trade market. Because of this it is generally multi-prosperous for consumer and provider that a concept such as fair-trade exists as long as it is not forced upon companies to live up to said standards should they not want to. This is in my opinion positive capitalist fair-trade.

Besides some companies clearly choose to be fair-trade even if they are not forced to be so by any type of government. Preventing these companies to provide at a certain price even though there clearly is a market for fair-trade products would in my opinion be communist economy or state-capitalism which is not a sought-after value in any healthy free market.

In your case I must say that if we're not talking about fraud, which doesn't seem to be the case, it is in a free economy generally the consumers responsibility to purchase or consume wares that the consumer finds to his liking. (Or even consume gifted such wares as it was in your case) Therefore as long as the consumer is given sufficient information about the product in question it falls solely upon him to evaluate if he should want to consume said product. In other words: You should have probably made effort to read the given information on the tea before you chose to consume it.

Blame the lack of information on the product - not the fair-trade concept.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 43769
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2015 at 4:34pm
Print Post  
[quote author=0F3035353837590 link=1442376164/13#13 date=1444331007]

In your case I must say that if we're not talking about fraud, which doesn't seem to be the case, it is in a free economy generally the consumers responsibility to purchase or consume wares that the consumer finds to his liking. (Or even consume gifted such wares as it was in your case) Therefore as long as the consumer is given sufficient information about the product in question it falls solely upon him to evaluate if he should want to consume said product. In other words: You should have probably made effort to read the given information on the tea before you chose to consume it.

Blame the lack of information on the product - not the fair-trade concept.[/quote]
Opposition's tea listed all three ingredients, tea, water and a natural sweetener. There was no lack of accurate information.

I hope he's badly allergic to the natural sweetener and dies after his second serving, if he ever takes it.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10045
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2015 at 12:16am
Print Post  
[quote author=38262B2A283A364F0 link=1442376164/14#14 date=1444336451]
Opposition's tea listed all three ingredients, tea, water and a natural sweetener. There was no lack of accurate information.

I hope he's badly allergic to the natural sweetener and dies after his second serving, if he ever takes it.
[/quote]

I did drink it but I was prepared this time. I made sure not to have anything on my stomach, so when I puked, it wasn't a big deal. Your body naturally uses a lot of water to break up your food for you. The thing is, it's banking on getting most of that back. If you puke up your own juices, that's when you'll get dehydrated and horribly, horribly sick. I win this round, good guy.

Anyway, I hope you understand that I was being a little tongue-in-cheek about getting sick off the tea. Now it does appear that it did make me sick, due to the "sweetener" which I don't even perceive the taste of. But I was making a joke about the hippie stuff on the label.

[quote author=615E5B5B5659370 link=1442376164/13#13 date=1444331007]Just like any other service (almost except murder etc.) ''fairness'' is a good that any consumer should be able to purchase should he want so. Therefore I quite like the idea of ''Fair Trade'' advertisements because it supplies the market with a voluntary service that guarantees certain production standards for the manufacturer should said manufacturer choose to reach out to the fair-trade market. Because of this it is generally multi-prosperous for consumer and provider that a concept such as fair-trade exists as long as it is not forced upon companies to live up to said standards should they not want to. This is in my opinion positive capitalist fair-trade.

Besides some companies clearly choose to be fair-trade even if they are not forced to be so by any type of government. Preventing these companies to provide at a certain price even though there clearly is a market for fair-trade products would in my opinion be communist economy or state-capitalism which is not a sought-after value in any healthy free market.

In your case I must say that if we're not talking about fraud, which doesn't seem to be the case, it is in a free economy generally the consumers responsibility to purchase or consume wares that the consumer finds to his liking. (Or even consume gifted such wares as it was in your case) Therefore as long as the consumer is given sufficient information about the product in question it falls solely upon him to evaluate if he should want to consume said product. In other words: You should have probably made effort to read the given information on the tea before you chose to consume it.

Blame the lack of information on the product - not the fair-trade concept.[/quote]

Yes, I know. I was being a bit silly about the hippie stuff.

And yes there's a market for the fair trade stuff. That's why it's so easy for them to lie about it. Stevea posted a couple of good links on page 1. They're not actually providing the gleaming labour standards people are paying for, unfortunately.

My sort of after-the-fact musing was just this: What if there was so much consumer demand for certain labour standards that all businesses were forced to adopt them? What if welfare was enforced by ostracism? Give to the poor, or you don't get served. You'd live in a de facto communist country. You'd just have freedom on paper. As a libertarian, would you be upset?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jzk
Libertarians Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 222
Location: Chicago
Joined: Oct 4th, 2015
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2015 at 8:20am
Print Post  
John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Foods is a libertarian.  Like any good capitalist, he is willing to profit from elite consumers that want to believe in things like "fair trade," "organic food," and "sustainable" farming whatever that means.  To him it means that he just marks up the food another 40%.  Good for him.

[quote author=340B0E0E030C620 link=1442376164/13#13 date=1444331007]Just like any other service (almost except murder etc.) ''fairness'' is a good that any consumer should be able to purchase should he want so. Therefore I quite like the idea of ''Fair Trade'' advertisements because it supplies the market with a voluntary service that guarantees certain production standards for the manufacturer should said manufacturer choose to reach out to the fair-trade market. Because of this it is generally multi-prosperous for consumer and provider that a concept such as fair-trade exists as long as it is not forced upon companies to live up to said standards should they not want to. This is in my opinion positive capitalist fair-trade.

Besides some companies clearly choose to be fair-trade even if they are not forced to be so by any type of government. Preventing these companies to provide at a certain price even though there clearly is a market for fair-trade products would in my opinion be communist economy or state-capitalism which is not a sought-after value in any healthy free market.

In your case I must say that if we're not talking about fraud, which doesn't seem to be the case, it is in a free economy generally the consumers responsibility to purchase or consume wares that the consumer finds to his liking. (Or even consume gifted such wares as it was in your case) Therefore as long as the consumer is given sufficient information about the product in question it falls solely upon him to evaluate if he should want to consume said product. In other words: You should have probably made effort to read the given information on the tea before you chose to consume it.

Blame the lack of information on the product - not the fair-trade concept.[/quote]
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jzk
Libertarians Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 222
Location: Chicago
Joined: Oct 4th, 2015
Re: Communism Makes Me Sick
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2015 at 8:24am
Print Post  
[quote author=506C615B4B74746B776D706D6B6A040 link=1442376164/15#15 date=1444364219]

I What if there was so much consumer demand for certain labour standards that all businesses were forced to adopt them? What if welfare was enforced by ostracism? Give to the poor, or you don't get served. You'd live in a de facto communist country. You'd just have freedom on paper. As a libertarian, would you be upset?[/quote]

An excellent hypothetical.  The best thing about the market is that it fueled by human nature.  You could make all the hypotheticals in the world saying "what if human nature were different," but that does not make it so.  No matter how large a group demanding these labor standards, there will be always be a sizable group willing to get the better deal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Communism Makes Me Sick
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy