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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Discrimination in Schools (Read 1598 times)
The Opposition
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Discrimination in Schools
Sep 16th, 2015 at 11:47pm
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https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/more-than-150-students-walk-out-of-classes-to-...

Apparently some girls didn't like that a transgender child, born male, wanted to use their locker room. The females walked out of the school.

My position on this is going to sound a little weird. The school is public property, owned by the government, and the government can't discriminate. Therefore the child should be allowed in the girl's locker room. However, so should all non-transgender boys. "But... they have their own," is no more an excuse for discrimination now than it was when it was along racial lines and "separate but equal" was a thing.

This also means that the girls have a right to use the boys' locker room. Unfortunately for females, their nudity is culturally different than male nudity. I don't think females are likely to enter a male locker room in droves to harass a male because his private bits aren't sizable enough, but I do think a crowd of males would enter a female locker room, find flaws, and torment females. It's simply because the appearance of females is all-consuming for males, but the appearance of males is less important to females. This cultural distinction will have to go, or the girls can just endure, or the girls can torment back on principle, because it's contrary to the ideal of people being equal under the Law.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Alan Jones
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #1 - Sep 17th, 2015 at 3:45pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 16th, 2015 at 11:47pm:
The school is public property, owned by the government, and the government can't discriminate.

Why not? The ERA was never ratified, and this is a perfect example why.
  
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Dissident Right
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #2 - Sep 17th, 2015 at 5:07pm
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Discrimination is the only function of the government.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #3 - Sep 17th, 2015 at 8:01pm
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 17th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
Why not? The ERA was never ratified, and this is a perfect example why.


I just read up on the Equal Rights Amendment and I see not one thing wrong with it. In fact, isn't the ERA libertarian in that it would have removed many regulations? I'm talking about equality under the Law. Should that be a thing, or do some people "need" special treatment?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Alan Jones
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 12:28pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 17th, 2015 at 8:01pm:
I just read up on the Equal Rights Amendment and I see not one thing wrong with it.

Didn't you just start this thread with an example of something wrong with it? Of course if "separate but equal" was permitted, it would alleviate part of the problem, as long as (public) ladies rooms had the same number of urinals as men's rooms.  Grin

The Opposition wrote on Sep 17th, 2015 at 8:01pm:
In fact, isn't the ERA libertarian in that it would have removed many regulations?

I didn't say it was all bad. I only pointed out that it was not ratified and is not law.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 9:25pm
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2015 at 12:28pm:
Didn't you just start this thread with an example of something wrong with it?


Well I tried to be neutral and see what others thought of it. I assumed the correct position would be that everyone is equal under the Law, and that such a position would imply that all boys (not just the transgender one) had an equal right to be in the girls' locker room.

Alan Jones wrote on Sep 18th, 2015 at 12:28pm:
I didn't say it was all bad. I only pointed out that it was not ratified and is not law.


Well that's a pity, don't you think?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Alan Jones
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #6 - Sep 19th, 2015 at 12:14am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 18th, 2015 at 9:25pm:
Well I tried to be neutral and see what others thought of it. I assumed the correct position would be that everyone is equal under the Law, and that such a position would imply that all boys (not just the transgender one) had an equal right to be in the girls' locker room.

Well that's a pity, don't you think?

No. Men and women are different in ways that justify separate but equal bathrooms/showers/etc. Gender is simply not analogous to skin color.

But I think the real reason the ERA was rejected is because it would have eliminated laws that discriminate against men, like the draft, preferences in child custody cases, etc. And laws against women going around topless.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #7 - Sep 22nd, 2015 at 10:57am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 16th, 2015 at 11:47pm:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/more-than-150-students-walk-out-of-classes-to-...

Apparently some girls didn't like that a transgender child, born male, wanted to use their locker room. The females walked out of the school.

My position on this is going to sound a little weird. The school is public property, owned by the government, and the government can't discriminate. Therefore the child should be allowed in the girl's locker room. However, so should all non-transgender boys. "But... they have their own," is no more an excuse for discrimination now than it was when it was along racial lines and "separate but equal" was a thing.

This also means that the girls have a right to use the boys' locker room. Unfortunately for females, their nudity is culturally different than male nudity. I don't think females are likely to enter a male locker room in droves to harass a male because his private bits aren't sizable enough, but I do think a crowd of males would enter a female locker room, find flaws, and torment females. It's simply because the appearance of females is all-consuming for males, but the appearance of males is less important to females. This cultural distinction will have to go, or the girls can just endure, or the girls can torment back on principle, because it's contrary to the ideal of people being equal under the Law.

For a genius, you're really stupid. I certainly do remember you saying you know nothing at all about human nature, so you don't have to keep trying to prove it.
Boys and girls want separate facilities. So do their parents.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 19th, 2015 at 12:14am:
No. Men and women are different in ways that justify separate but equal bathrooms/showers/etc. Gender is simply not analogous to skin color.


Why? Because females aren't as physically strong and don't have as much testosterone? White and Asian males have less than black males. People... are... different. Why should some of those differences be ignored while others merit attention?

Alan Jones wrote on Sep 19th, 2015 at 12:14am:
But I think the real reason the ERA was rejected is because it would have eliminated laws that discriminate against men, like the draft, preferences in child custody cases, etc. And laws against women going around topless.


I think all the laws you mention are discriminatory and unreasonable. Either females should be able to go topless, or males shouldn't.

And the best parent should get the kid, not that either of them are very good if they can't find a way to work it out for the child's sake. Personally I think child support should only be a thing if one parent did not want the child. The act of dumping the burden of your reproductive success on others is what merits the collection of child support, imeo. If a female is doing this, she should pay.

Jeff wrote on Sep 22nd, 2015 at 10:57am:
For a genius, you're really stupid. I certainly do remember you saying you know nothing at all about human nature, so you don't have to keep trying to prove it.
Boys and girls want separate facilities. So do their parents.


You don't think the males want access to the females' locker room? I'm not stupid, but you're certainly naive.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Alan Jones
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #9 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 4:22am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am:
Why? Because females aren't as physically strong and don't have as much testosterone?

You think those are the relevant differences between genders? Those are just group statistical differences that have nothing to do with this issue. Try penis and testicles vs vagina and womb.

The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am:
White and Asian males have less than black males. People... are... different.

Yes, they are. You know what else is different? Race and gender. Different things. You really going to compare racial group statistical differences to penis and testicles vs vagina and womb? Who has darker skin to who can make babies? And expect to be taken seriously?

The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am:
Why should some of those differences be ignored while others merit attention?

Because some are relevant to this issue and some aren't.

The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am:
I think all the laws you mention are discriminatory and unreasonable. Either females should be able to go topless, or males shouldn't.

And the best parent should get the kid, not that either of them are very good if they can't find a way to work it out for the child's sake. Personally I think child support should only be a thing if one parent did not want the child. The act of dumping the burden of your reproductive success on others is what merits the collection of child support, imeo. If a female is doing this, she should pay.

I agree, I was just pointing out that a lot of women opposed the ERA because most of the official gender discrimination by government is in their favor.
  
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