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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Discrimination in Schools (Read 1597 times)
Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 8:05am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 2:30am:
You don't think the males want access to the females' locker room? I'm not stupid, but you're certainly naive.

Some boys would like to spy on the girls. Hardly any would be willing to get naked in front of a large group of girls, and what the girls want, or don't want, is just as important, almost as important as what the parents want, and don't want.
It's easy. If you are physically male, you use the facilities provided for men. If you are physically female, you use the facilities provided for women.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #11 - Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:09am
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 4:22am:
You think those are the relevant differences between genders? Those are just group statistical differences that have nothing to do with this issue. Try penis and testicles vs vagina and womb.

Yes, they are. You know what else is different? Race and gender. Different things. You really going to compare racial group statistical differences to penis and testicles vs vagina and womb? Who has darker skin to who can make babies? And expect to be taken seriously?


Yes, because those are all mere physical characteristics. You'd be exactly the same person with exactly the same rights if you had an ostrich's body, or a female's. If it was still your consciousness, I hope you'd be upset to be suddenly treated differently by the law.

Let me let you in on something: I don't actually know why Separate but Equal was not okay. I just know it wasn't. My guess is that it had something to do with the equal part not really being true.

Jeff wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 8:05am:
Some boys would like to spy on the girls. Hardly any would be willing to get naked in front of a large group of girls, and what the girls want, or don't want, is just as important, almost as important as what the parents want, and don't want.
It's easy. If you are physically male, you use the facilities provided for men. If you are physically female, you use the facilities provided for women.


Alright, here's a little scenario for the both of you, to illustrate that even if I concede this petty cultural BS to be valid, it is not about who wants what, at least not directly. It's about making people unreasonably uncomfortable.

Let's say you're a high school kid, and someone puts your brain in a female's body. The girl you swapped with isn't minding it much in the males' locker room or causing any problems. She's not leering at anyone and no one assumes she wants to even though the school is aware of the switch. But you... you can't help but stare at the other girls. They get uncomfortable. They don't want to shower around you. Which locker room should you use?

It's obvious the separation is done for the sake of the females. They would be greatly uncomfortable, naked, in a gender-integrated environment. It's because of their discomfort. But you don't have a crappity smackin' right not to be uncomfortable!
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #12 - Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:34pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:09am:
Alright, here's a little scenario for the both of you, to illustrate that even if I concede this petty cultural BS to be valid, it is not about who wants what, at least not directly. It's about making people unreasonably uncomfortable.

Let's say you're a high school kid, and someone puts your brain in a female's body. The girl you swapped with isn't minding it much in the males' locker room or causing any problems. She's not leering at anyone and no one assumes she wants to even though the school is aware of the switch. But you... you can't help but stare at the other girls. They get uncomfortable. They don't want to shower around you. Which locker room should you use?

It's obvious the separation is done for the sake of the females. They would be greatly uncomfortable, naked, in a gender-integrated environment. It's because of their discomfort. But you don't have a crappity smackin' right not to be uncomfortable!

There are girls who are attracted to other girls, and boys who are attracted to other boys (no brain swapping necessary) and this fact of life makes some people uncomfortable in locker rooms. There are also people who are simply uncomfortable in locker rooms and public toilets, no matter that everybody there is the same sex as they are, even if everybody ignores them completely.

Nobody has a "right not to be uncomfortable".

Children who are physically male use the boys facilities, Children who are physically female use the girls facilities.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #13 - Sep 28th, 2015 at 3:41am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:34pm:
There are girls who are attracted to other girls, and boys who are attracted to other boys (no brain swapping necessary) and this fact of life makes some people uncomfortable in locker rooms.


Why do you suppose I proposed brain swap when I know this is a thing? Because males have a higher sex drive than females, generally. Lesbians in locker rooms aren't likely to bother the other girls. Females are classy like that. They don't wear their sexuality on their sleeves. You won't find them leering at each other with bedroom eyes, even if they're all lesbians. They also have a lower threshold for feeling uncomfortable. They're the ones who aren't going to be acting up and bothering people, because they can - and do - help it.

Males and females are kept apart for the sake of the females. The males would bother the females. The females would probably not bother the males.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #14 - Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:28am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 3:41am:
Males and females are kept apart for the sake of the females. The males would bother the females. The females would probably not bother the males.

Once sex hormones start coursing through the bodies of children, they are most often kept apart to prevent the girls from becoming pregnant. Often the girls initiate the proceedings.
When children become responsible enough to accept the consequences of having sex, we generally call them adults and don't keep them apart.
In our particular culture, men and women want separate toilets and locker rooms, even as adults.
  

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Alan Jones
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #15 - Sep 29th, 2015 at 2:31am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:09am:
Yes, because those are all mere physical characteristics. You'd be exactly the same person with exactly the same rights if you had an ostrich's body, or a female's. If it was still your consciousness, I hope you'd be upset to be suddenly treated differently by the law.

I'd be more upset to be actually different as a matter of empirical fact. Especially with the ostrich.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #16 - Sep 30th, 2015 at 5:34pm
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Alan Jones wrote on Sep 29th, 2015 at 2:31am:
I'd be more upset to be actually different as a matter of empirical fact. Especially with the ostrich.

I'm not thinking about it much, but I know I'd be very different if I had a female body.
My brain would have been saturated with female hormones since my birth... I'd be a woman. I'd have female chromosomes.
If I had an ostrich's body, I wouldn't be going to school anyway.

BTW Opposition, animals don't have human rights because they aren't human. Why do you keep throwing that in? You want lizards to be allowed to vote?
  

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stevea
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #17 - Oct 1st, 2015 at 2:28am
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Which locker room should an ostrich use ?  Is that the question ?

  
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Jeff
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #18 - Oct 1st, 2015 at 10:07am
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stevea wrote on Oct 1st, 2015 at 2:28am:
Which locker room should an ostrich use ?  Is that the question ?


According to Opposition, it depends on whether the ostrich thinks it's a human male, or a human female.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Discrimination in Schools
Reply #19 - Oct 2nd, 2015 at 8:12am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2015 at 10:07am:
According to Opposition, it depends on whether the ostrich thinks it's a human male, or a human female.


That's not true. I said the child in question had every right to be in the female locker room because it's public property and everyone in the school has an equal right to use it.

Transgenders should not get special privileges. If you did allow, out of the males, only that child in the female locker room, (s)he would be the only child in the school allowed to use both locker rooms. That would constitute an extra privilege. Instead, allow every child in either locker room.

The girls should not have walked out because of who was allowed in "their" locker room. They were made uncomfortable. A colossal fat kid or someone with a really horrid skin defect might make them uncomfortable too, and they'd all just have to deal with it. More importantly they'd understand that.

The argument about mating is silly. They get pregnant younger and younger anyway. I seriously doubt they would be mating in the locker rooms.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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