Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › libertarian and immigration
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) libertarian and immigration (Read 1512 times)
Tommy Palven
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2033
Location: North America
Joined: Sep 27th, 2011
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 6:26am
Print Post  
Quote:
Unrestricted human movement is insane, because diversity + proximity = war.


Individual liberty may be insane, but imho it is ethical and efficacious, and I'm for it.

The worst argument against freedom of movement is Hoppe's long, convoluted, piece of statist crap.

Sorry, yours doesn't even come close.  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 46330
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 7:58am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 1:58am:
How likely is it that a country of socialists won't eventually have the socialism they want? Furthermore, honestly, how fair is this to them if they don't get what they want? Do you think people don't have a right to have the kind of government they like?

Using you as an example, because you want an authoritarian government, I have to say, of course not. No one has a right to rule over others.
Likewise, "socialists" have no right to have a government that takes money from productive people and hands it out to people who didn't earn it.
No government has a "right" to redistribute wealth, simply because doing so violates the rights of individuals.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 46330
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #12 - Sep 25th, 2015 at 5:06pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Using you as an example, because you want an authoritarian government, I have to say, of course not. No one has a right to rule over others.
Likewise, "socialists" have no right to have a government that takes money from productive people and hands it out to people who didn't earn it.
No government has a "right" to redistribute wealth, simply because doing so violates the rights of individuals.

You hiding Lizard Boy?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
genepool
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 903
Joined: Dec 19th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #13 - Sep 25th, 2015 at 9:55pm
Print Post  
I am not talking about right and wrong here. I am talking about good or bad. I think the way the world is now is good enough and I have ideas to make it better.

For example, amish can make their own community. But they still subject to american laws.

What about if some billionaires create a private country, and then seek protection (pay for it) from some powerful countries?

That would be a good next step.

The country doesn't have to be fully libertarian. Just like goods you buy doesn't have to be fully free. Competition among countries, and competition among protectors, will force the statist elements down.

All that matter is countries compete for productive individuals and that's what we have here.

We already have all that we need to live in a libertarian dream.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
genepool
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 903
Joined: Dec 19th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #14 - Sep 25th, 2015 at 11:09pm
Print Post  
I think the opposition has a right point.

Singapore is richer than indonesian. Why? Because singapore citizens are more productive than indonesian citizens. But why?

Because singapore is far more meritocratic than indonesian. I am not meritocratic. I trust people and they can screw me.

A country is just not simply because it has a just rule. It is just because it's rules can be and is enforced effectively.

Pure libertarian society that allows all immigrant to come in and expect to remain libertarian is quite difficult to realize. I  mean can immigrants bring guns?

The closest and definitely not a libertarian country I can think of is united arab emirate. 75% of their population is immigrant. However, they have religions and harsh laws to enforce conducts.

I do not think a secular liberal country with light punishment can enforce justice like united arab emirate.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10831
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #15 - Sep 26th, 2015 at 12:41am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Using you as an example, because you want an authoritarian government, I have to say, of course not. No one has a right to rule over others.
Likewise, "socialists" have no right to have a government that takes money from productive people and hands it out to people who didn't earn it.
No government has a "right" to redistribute wealth, simply because doing so violates the rights of individuals.


That man in that society over there thinks murder is totally cool, and no government has a right to tell him otherwise, or impose its will on him.

But the important thing is that he doesn't have a right to tell us how to live, just because his concept of rights is different. The absolute best solution is for our murderers to go and live in his society. The absolute worst outcome is for people from his society to come here and enjoy the safety while advocating for a repeal of the laws against aggression.

It will always default to the majority, whether this is a sad truth or a happy one. If most of the people are unhappy with a rule (or lack thereof) it's not okay to snub them. People who don't want laws against murder will always be a tiny minority, and they won't get their way, even if they are consistent and wouldn't mind having to defend themselves constantly.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 46330
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #16 - Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:38pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 12:41am:
That man in that society over there thinks murder is totally cool, and no government has a right to tell him otherwise, or impose its will on him.

What, yet another imaginary society?
In our society, murderers are liable to be executed or imprisoned for life. A primary purpose of government is to protect the lives and property of its citizens, all of them, equally. This requires that murder be made illegal, that everyone be told not to murder.

Like I said, no one has a right to steal, and no government has a right to steal on behalf of some of it's citizens, therefore, no socialist government or socialist government policy is legitimate.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10831
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #17 - Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:37am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:38pm:
What, yet another imaginary society?


No, it's not imaginary. There are plenty of real-world cultures that consider murder acceptable for one reason or another.

Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2015 at 1:38pm:
In our society, murderers are liable to be executed or imprisoned for life. A primary purpose of government is to protect the lives and property of its citizens, all of them, equally. This requires that murder be made illegal, that everyone be told not to murder.

Like I said, no one has a right to steal, and no government has a right to steal on behalf of some of it's citizens, therefore, no socialist government or socialist government policy is legitimate.


This just happens to be the line our society draws because it's what most people want.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 46330
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: libertarian and immigration
Reply #18 - Sep 28th, 2015 at 10:02am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Sep 28th, 2015 at 4:37am:
No, it's not imaginary. There are plenty of real-world cultures that consider murder acceptable for one reason or another.


This just happens to be the line our society draws because it's what most people want.

Governments that approve of murder aren't civilized.

Laws punishing murderers aren't subject to "the will of the majority", except in uncivilized countries, which are often nominally "democratic".
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › libertarian and immigration
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy