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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why freedom leads to prosperity (Read 1969 times)
Jeff
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #10 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 3:56pm
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stevea wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 3:51pm:
No anyone who hires you believes they are getting MORE than $60/hr of value.
You OTOH believe the $60 is worth MORE than the hour of your time.

If you each thought the trade was par (no added value) you  wouldn't bother.

You are saying I overcharge for my labor, that I am some kind of thief?

Most of the people I work for would like to get the work done for $1.35/hour, or for free, but they know that they will get what they pay for, so they agree, $60/hour is a fair price for my labor.
  
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #11 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 4:29pm
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genepool wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 9:37pm:
Back to the topic.

Imagine 10 stores selling things worth $100 when you spend $50. One store, sell things worth $150. All those stores selling $100 will be out of biz and the "new" industry standard is you get $150. That one store that give $150 will dominate the whole market share.

Imagine 10 white stores selling things worth $100...

Imagine 10 black stores...oops, they burned down in the riots.
  
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #12 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 4:30pm
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genepool wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 9:34pm:
The higher the IQ the more likely they get rich productively and come up with ways to cooperate more amicably.

The lower the IQ the more eating your friend is the only way to win.

In other words, giving black people freedom does not magically make them prosperous. Curious.
  
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stevea
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #13 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 5:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 9:37am:
...
Or that free competition absolutely prevents monopoly?


This is a sort of simple tautology no ?
Monopoly occurs when one party (or a group of consolidated parties)  is/are the only vendor of a good or service.
So competition means not-monopoly by definition.

That doesn't really help prevent the damage when Microsoft owns 90% of the OS market or Standard oil owned ~78% of the fuel market and then they use unfair trade practices to disadvantage competition.

Also note that government granted monopolies (patents & unions) prevent competition.
  
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stevea
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #14 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 5:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 3:56pm:
You are saying I overcharge for my labor, that I am some kind of thief?

Most of the people I work for would like to get the work done for $1.35/hour, or for free, but they know that they will get what they pay for, so they agree, $60/hour is a fair price for my labor.


You conflating free market pricing for services with THEFT is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS!  Selling your service at market rates is just another free-market exchange, like any other.  ALL free market exchanges are voluntary, and therefore are only acted upon when BOTH parties see the exchange as an increase in VALUE (subjective) to them.

You and I charge as much as the market will bear for our services.  That is normal and natural.
When someone is willing to pay me $115/hr I take it, and when the best offer is only $60 I may take that.

The guy paying for services at any negotiated rate is paying VOLUNTARILY b/c they believe they are getting more VALUE than the cost of the service.  Has ZERO to do with theft.   Calling a voluntary exchange that increase the value to each party "theft" is nonsense thinking worthy of a progressive.

--

Explain what you mean by "theft".  Define the term in this context.

  
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stevea
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #15 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 6:17pm
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In other words, giving black people freedom does not magically make them prosperous. Curious.


The hilarious part is that I know Black ppl a lot smarter than you.   Why not take your crappity-smacks & racism & uber-conservativism to another forum.   Is there a John Birch forum somewhere - or do you need a skin-head forum ?

The facts are that Blacks had a higher employment rate than whites and stronger families pre-WW2 despite segregation, inferior schools, etc.    The PanderingParty got them to accept handouts & welfare & accept inferior schooling - making them necessarily dependent on government and that party.  They infuse blacks & others w/ feelings of victimhood, (we were harmed, we deserve more).  It's insidious; they are doing it for Hispanics, Gays, women too.

Poor Whites, Gays and Hispanics are on the same path - has little to do with IQ.

Blacks can be plenty prosperous - but not those who accept a position as the 'poodles' of the pandering class.
  
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #16 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 7:42pm
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stevea wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 6:17pm:
The hilarious part is that I know Black ppl a lot smarter than you.

Shut off your emotions, you stupid cunt. If you have an IQ or 140 or whatever, prove it by thinking rationally.

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The facts are that Blacks had a higher employment rate than whites and stronger families pre-WW2 despite segregation, inferior schools, etc.

Who cares?

Quote:
The PanderingParty got them to accept handouts & welfare & accept inferior schooling - making them necessarily dependent on government and that party.

Black people aren't responsible for their own actions. Do you listen to yourself, idiot? Why the crappity smack is that otherwise clever libertarians totally lose the ability to think when you mention blacks?

Quote:
Blacks can be plenty prosperous

The ones with high IQs.

stevea wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 6:17pm:
Why not take your crappity-smacks & racism & uber-conservativism to another forum.

Because libertarians, above all, need to hear it.
  
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jzk
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #17 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 8:38pm
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Not at all!  To YOU, the $60 is worth more than your labor.  To your boss, your labor is worth MORE than $60.  Both of you benefit from the exchange, or you wouldn't do it. 

Jeff wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 3:56pm:
You are saying I overcharge for my labor, that I am some kind of thief?

Most of the people I work for would like to get the work done for $1.35/hour, or for free, but they know that they will get what they pay for, so they agree, $60/hour is a fair price for my labor.

  
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stevea
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #18 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 8:56pm
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Shut off your emotions, you stupid cunt. If you have an IQ or 140 or whatever, prove it by thinking rationally.


Nothing emotional about it.  You  are a stupid person making racist remarks.  You continuously post your CONSERVATIVE ideas on a LIBERTARIAN forum and fail to understand how dumb that is.
You characterize an entire race as low IQ => you = racist.   In fact you are so stupid you can't even curse effectively.

Quote:
Who cares?


Just ppl interested in a factual based view of the truth, therefore not some closed minded bigot like you.

Quote:
Black people aren't responsible for their own actions. Do you listen to yourself, idiot? Why the crappity smack is that otherwise clever libertarians totally lose the ability to think when you mention blacks?


So it's your inability to READ that is once again the problem.

I suggested, based on some evidence, that Blacks have been by and large mislead into dependency.  That is no different in kind from me pointing out that A lot of Germans were mis-lead into Nazi atrocities, or that a lot of Americans were mislead into FDR's socialism.  It's a fact, not an excuse.

I NEVER said anything about responsibility - did I ?   You totally made that up you knuckle-dragging illiterate ignoramus.

So back on topic - you apparently fail to make a distinction between responsibility and blame.  Blacks, generally, broadly, not universally, deserve blame for their own decisions to accept dependence on government.  But they take little responsibility for the consequences - a tyranny of 51% says that others will pay for their poor decisions.  In fact that's the entire basis for political pandering (Dems, FDR, Hitler), evade or reshape blame, shift responsibility/costs to others..

Try  reading the words and stop inserting your stupid misinterpretations.


Quote:
The ones with high IQs.

Because libertarians, above all, need to hear it.


FAIL!  This is just more of your racist drivel.  Show evidence for your gross generalizations or shut-TF up.

Genepool is fundamentally wrong, but you swallowed it in one gulp.  Higher IQ ppl succeed primarily b/c they can be more productive, not b/c they are better are market exchanges.   It's really a dumb lib-tard argument to claim that ppl are rich b/c they 'cheat' others or outmaneuver them.   That's rubbish.  They are well-off b/c they produce more value to others.

Yes there are few cheaters -  Bernie Madhoffs who need to be behind bars,  but there are a lot more who are better off b/c they provide massive value to others.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why freedom leads to prosperity
Reply #19 - Oct 7th, 2015 at 8:09am
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stevea wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
This is a sort of simple tautology no ?
Monopoly occurs when one party (or a group of consolidated parties)  is/are the only vendor of a good or service.
So competition means not-monopoly by definition.

That doesn't really help prevent the damage when Microsoft owns 90% of the OS market or Standard oil owned ~78% of the fuel market and then they use unfair trade practices to disadvantage competition.

Also note that government granted monopolies (patents & unions) prevent competition.

Yes.

The "unfair trade practices" Standard Oil was using were to produce excellent products cheaper than anybody else could. Consumers got great gas and oil at a lower price.

Breaking up Standard Oil raised the price of gas and oil to consumers. You want to break up Microsoft? How about we just wait, and let the market work instead.

And yes, the temporary monopolies granted by patents and copyrights temporarily prevent competition, but they encourage innovation and creativity. Everyone benefits.

Unions with monopoly power over workers is so absurdly unconstitutional and anti-liberty it makes my head spin.
  
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