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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does Blackmail violate the NAP? (Read 2758 times)
jzk
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #30 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:04am
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All voluntary transactions contain a "threat."  It is the "threat" that the other side isn't going to perform unless you do.

The grocery store makes the "threat" that they aren't giving me food unless I give them money.  What if I really need the food?  If I am hungry and have "no other choice" but to pay them for the food, is it voluntary?

Jeff wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:01am:
Would I pay you without the threat? No.
That means the transaction is not voluntary. The NAP is all about voluntary transactions. Coerced transactions violate the NAP.

I'll keep saying that, consistently, for every scenario you propose.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #31 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:09am
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jzk wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:04am:
All voluntary transactions contain a "threat." 

No, you're sadly mistaken and completely confused. Voluntary means both parties agree.

You seem to have an almost 'progressive' difficulty with language and the meaning of words.

It's not the farmers fault that you need to eat, and he can't force you to buy his food, nor can you force him to sell it to you.
  
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jzk
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #32 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:13am
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I think you have that in reverse. 

How is a blackmail transaction not voluntary?

How is a sexual harassment transaction not voluntary?

In the black mail transaction, you freely choose to pay the money to keep the secret or you freely choose to not pay the money.

In the sexual harassment transaction you freely choose to perform the sex act and continue your employment or you freely choose to leave your employment.

All are free transactions.  That you really "want" or "need" what is being bargained for makes them no less voluntary.

Jeff wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:09am:
No, you're sadly mistaken and completely confused. Voluntary means both parties agree.

You seem to have an almost 'progressive' difficulty with language and the meaning of words.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #33 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:24am
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[quote author=435342290 link=1444760288/32#32 date=1445008399

How is a blackmail transaction not voluntary?

[/quote]
Obviously you're just stupid.
Without your threat, I won't give you money.
The "transaction" of blackmail is predicated on you having some means to force me to give you money.
  
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jzk
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #34 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 1:14pm
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You are proving that the honor is all yours.

What is the "force" that I am using?

You can voluntarily pay me.

Or you can voluntarily not pay me.

The consequences are not me using force.  The consequences are that either I will publicize the information or I won't. 

No "force" at all.

Jeff wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 11:24am:
Obviously you're just stupid.
Without your threat, I won't give you money.
The "transaction" of blackmail is predicated on you having some means to force me to give you money.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Does Blackmail violate the NAP?
Reply #35 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 2:20pm
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jzk wrote on Oct 16th, 2015 at 1:14pm:
What is the "force" that I am using?

There are lots of ways to try to force me to give you money. Whichever one you are using, withdraw it, stop threatening me, and I won't give you a cent.

If you aren't threatening me, you won't get my money. At this point, I wouldn't even buy anything from you even if it looked like a really good deal. It would probably be something you stole from someone else.
  
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