Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Deep State
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Deep State (Read 5122 times)
Tom Palven
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1629
Location: North America
Joined: Sep 27th, 2011
The Deep State
Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:08am
Print Post  
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/john-w-whitehead/silent-coup/

Whitehead doesn't seem to provide any solutions to the problem of the Deep State.

If it actually exists to the extent he claims it would seem that only US bankruptcy can free North America and the rest of the world from it's clutches.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4474
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #1 - Oct 27th, 2016 at 3:29pm
Print Post  
bumpity bump.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 22008
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #2 - Oct 27th, 2016 at 4:28pm
Print Post  
Tom Palven wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:08am:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/john-w-whitehead/silent-coup/

Whitehead doesn't seem to provide any solutions to the problem of the Deep State.

If it actually exists to the extent he claims it would seem that only US bankruptcy can free North America and the rest of the world from it's clutches.
I believe that people will have to be convicted of treason and hung (all of it in public, open trials and public hangings) in order to free us from the "clutches of the Deep State"... y'know, if there really is a Deep State.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4474
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #3 - Oct 28th, 2016 at 12:57pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Oct 27th, 2016 at 4:28pm:
I believe that people will have to be convicted of treason and hung (all of it in public, open trials and public hangings) in order to free us from the "clutches of the Deep State"... y'know, if there really is a Deep State.

Im a little skeptical that the "deep state" even exists.

Certainly, there are small groups which wield too much power and have too much influence on US policy:

commercially-controlled media

military industrial complex

corruptible Congress Critters

clueless Supreme Court Justices who are interested only in promoting their own personal political agenda, rather than upholding Constitutional Law [no names necessary - we all know who they are, and who's responsible for appointing them]

corruptible FBI Chiefs and DOJ officials

Is it possible that all these components just create the illusion of a Deep State?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tom Palven
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1629
Location: North America
Joined: Sep 27th, 2011
Re: The Deep State
Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2016 at 2:29pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 28th, 2016 at 12:57pm:
Is it possible that all these components just create the illusion of a Deep State?


I think that this is entirely possible.

But consider this, Obama at first seemed amenable to the Arab Spring movement along with the election of Dr. Mohammed Morsi and the solid parlianmentary victory for his Freedom and Justice Party in Egypt.

However, US CENTCOM and the CIA either stood by and watched or actively participated in the military overthrow of Morsi's government, and Congress continued to fund the military during it coup despite talk that it might cut funding.

This is just one example of why it seems to me that perhaps something is rotten in Denmark or in the bowels of the Pentagon, State Dept., and/or Treasury Dept..


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JW
Libertarian Senior Member
****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 332
Joined: Jul 4th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2016 at 3:15pm
Print Post  
Tom Palven wrote on Oct 28th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
This is just one example of why it seems to me that perhaps something is rotten in Denmark or in the bowels of the Pentagon, State Dept., and/or Treasury Dept..


Being hired by the CIA doesn't make you a genius in middle east affairs.

I think the US Government has repeatedly shown a lack of knowledge and sensitivity with other cultures, going back for decades.  Some of this is driven by ideology, but I'm afraid most of it is just lack of knowledge.  There are relatively few Arabic speakers in the government, and many who are there are sandboxed because they are muslim or 2nd generation immigrants. 

Legions of ignorant bureaucrats, leading to poor decision making.  LP position makes sense, don't mess with other regions of the world, and then you won't be held accountable for messing up.  But that doesn't mean a "deep state", just an ignorant one.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 22008
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2016 at 3:41pm
Print Post  
JW wrote on Oct 28th, 2016 at 3:15pm:
Being hired by the CIA doesn't make you a genius in middle east affairs.

I think the US Government has repeatedly shown a lack of knowledge and sensitivity with other cultures, going back for decades.  Some of this is driven by ideology, but I'm afraid most of it is just lack of knowledge.  There are relatively few Arabic speakers in the government, and many who are there are sandboxed because they are muslim or 2nd generation immigrants. 

Legions of ignorant bureaucrats, leading to poor decision making.  LP position makes sense, don't mess with other regions of the world, and then you won't be held accountable for messing up.  But that doesn't mean a "deep state", just an ignorant one.

I agree JW, nations throughout history have done the same thing, meddled in the affairs of other nations with bad results. I believe it is inevitable that people with government "power" get ideas of Empire, they often dream of capturing wealth, sometimes of spreading their religion or ideology. They always use force of one sort or another.

History also tells us that governments with power often negotiate with each other and form alliances, and that too has almost always had bad results.

Most certainly there was a "Deep State" in Europe prior to WWI. OK, there were two competing "Deep States" in Europe prior to WWI, and between them, they controlled most of the world. It turned out badly.

Such alliances as existed before WWI exist today, and they are what in my opinion are the substance of the Deep State. It is only slightly qualitatively different than the pre-WWI Deep State in that 'progressives' changed the language.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scott Amorian
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9
Location: Oregon
Joined: Oct 25th, 2016
Re: The Deep State
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2016 at 1:36pm
Print Post  
The managers and employees of the different agencies described by Whitehead are people who want to advance their careers.  They can only do that by excelling at their duties.  So every bureaucracy tends to be overzealous in pursuing its duties. 

You curb the problems Whitehead describes by providing some kind of oversight that recognizes the tendency of bureaucrats to be overzealous and provides a check on them.  Without such a check you have an out-of-control administrative state.

Political leaders don’t want to provide a check on those agencies because they would be held accountable for agency problems.  Politicians don’t want that because they would suffer in the polls at election time. 

Shadow “Deep State” government?  Not so much. 

Out-of-control administrative state?  Definitely.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Inglorious Bastiatard
Libertarian Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 76
Joined: Oct 13th, 2016
Re: The Deep State
Reply #8 - Oct 29th, 2016 at 3:59pm
Print Post  
Would yall think of the Bilberbergers, the council on foreign relations, G8/12/20, the Fed, etc. qualify as deep state actors or maybe I dont quite understand what the deep state is...please help
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 22008
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Deep State
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2016 at 4:55pm
Print Post  
Inglorious Bastiatard wrote on Oct 29th, 2016 at 3:59pm:
Would yall think of the Bilberbergers, the council on foreign relations, G8/12/20, the Fed, etc. qualify as deep state actors or maybe I dont quite understand what the deep state is...please help

Tyrannical governments keep what they do a secret from us. (OK, they try to. 21st Century technology in the hands of smart people has made this almost impossible for them. They just aren't smart enough. We can now easily find out what they are really all about.)

Often they form alliances without our knowledge or approval. Then they send us to war to die and force us to pay for it.

Their motivation is power and wealth. (For them.)

They prefer a Medieval style of government, tyranny in collusion with crony capitalists. It produces more wealth for the State (them) to loot than does "communism".

It's the opposite of the very limited government our Constitution creates.

They are not monolithic or even well organized. That sort of thing is beyond them, because of their primary focus on personal wealth and personal power (and their general lack of a good grasp of reality). Throwing each other under the bus is something they do almost automatically, because their morality is that of garden slugs or packs of feral dogs. Hyenas perhaps.

That causes them to fight among themselves (i.e. sending us to war to die and making us pay for it.)

We know who they are, and I think they should be indicted, tried and hung (all publicly.)

Unfortunately, our courts, that we pay for, won't grant us "standing" to bring them to justice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Deep State
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy