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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Deep State (Read 5119 times)
Don_G
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #90 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:31pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:07pm:
My take on the "Deep State" is that it's not a grand conspiracy in which members communicate with each other.  It's more that bureaucrats everywhere recognize pretty easily which politicians are more friendly to the idea of their growing power.  Like terrorists who follow the guidelines of ISIS, they don't have to communicate directly to further the goals of the group.

It's a lot like the liberal media.  Not a grand conspiracy of planning but more of a silent conspiracy of consensus.  Let's say Hillary were to be caught on camera tossing puppies into a river while running for president in 2020.  It would be viral on Youtube so what's the media to do?  One media source might follow the campaign's line that Hillary was protecting a small community from an outbreak of puppy-borne Ebola.  One would say that the whole story was fake news based on faked video.  One would say that everyone drowns puppies and they can't believe the hypocrisy of Clinton's critics.  The media outlets would read each other's headlines and whichever story gained traction would become the meme and the rest would be deleted.


It used to be that Dems were for a growing government and Reps were against, but that turns out to be lip service only.

The deep state hates Trump not because he's actually going to drain the swamp but because he will at least try to keep the swamp from spreading as quickly and deeply as it does under Demopublicans. 


I think the deep state is just simply the spook orgs in your country. And I think that the deep state is going to aid in bringing down Trump.

The right is too much into demonizing and the more extreme they are the more extremist the demonizing. Maybe Hillary really does throw puppies off of cliffs? We know that some US marines do.

One thing we should be able to assume is that the CIA sticks with the CIA and won't allow any dissention in it's ranks. That can lead us to the conclusion that they will act in what they see as the best interests of their country. Hey, they're just glorified cops!

So what I'm saying is that they were complicit in bringing down Kennedy because they perceived he was doing evil against his country. They will bring down Trump too for the same perceived reason.

I'm not suggesting they have a confederate shoot a big hole in his head. That's been done and shouldn't be repeated. They will do it some other way. And when they're prepared and ready, the R's will be ready to help do it.

Point is, Trump is destroying what was American.

We need to talk about his socalled alliance with Russia. The Dems are playing it for something that it isn't and Trump can't possibly admit what it really is.
  
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burnsred
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #91 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:43pm
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We need to talk about his socalled alliance with Russia. The Dems are playing it for something that it isn't and Trump can't possibly admit what it really is.
I'm sure I'll regret asking, but ok - what is it really?
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #92 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 2:09pm
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burnsred wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:43pm:
I'm sure I'll regret asking, but ok - what is it really?


Sure, here's my take on it:

The Dems are playing it as an alliance with Russia/Putin because that is verboten in the US. Neither the R's or the D's in congress want that to happen and they have shown that in votes against allowing it to happen. It's America!

The truth is, as everyone should know by now, that Trump has been involved in money laundering and all the other Mueller brought charges against him, with the Russians. And that was to aid in him winning the election.

You see, it's only a big deal because it was with the Russians because the Russians are still the enemy in the eyes of the people are especially in the eyes of US congress.

If it was money laundering and other assorted crimes with Israel then it would quickly pass muster with both the D's, the R's, and the majority of the people. Dead issue! No issue!
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #93 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:34am
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The James Clapper who is the in the press right now blasting Trump's rapport with Putin is the same friggin' James Clapper who told a bald-faced lie to the US Senate under oath and suffered no consequences.  Top secret documents exposing Clapper were released by Edward Snowden and published by The Guardian in June of 2013. 

This from Wikipedia:
Testimony to Congress on NSA surveillance programs, 2013.

Excerpt of James Clapper’s testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
On March 12, 2013, during a United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearing, Senator Ron Wyden quoted NSA director Keith B. Alexander’s keynote speech at the 2012 DEF CON. Alexander had stated that “Our job is foreign intelligence” and that “those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false.... From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense.” Wyden then asked Clapper, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” He responded, “No, sir.” Wyden asked “It does not?” and Clapper said, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”[31]
When Edward Snowden was asked during his January 26, 2014, TV interview in Moscow what the decisive moment was or why he blew the whistle, he replied: “Sort of the breaking point was seeing the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress. ... Seeing that really meant for me there was no going back.”[32
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #94 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 12:11pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:34am:
The James Clapper who is the in the press right now blasting Trump's rapport with Putin is the same friggin' James Clapper who told a bald-faced lie to the US Senate under oath and suffered no consequences.  Top secret documents exposing Clapper were released by Edward Snowden and published by The Guardian in June of 2013. 

This from Wikipedia:
Testimony to Congress on NSA surveillance programs, 2013.

Excerpt of James Clapper’s testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
On March 12, 2013, during a United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearing, Senator Ron Wyden quoted NSA director Keith B. Alexander’s keynote speech at the 2012 DEF CON. Alexander had stated that “Our job is foreign intelligence” and that “those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false.... From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense.” Wyden then asked Clapper, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” He responded, “No, sir.” Wyden asked “It does not?” and Clapper said, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”[31]
When Edward Snowden was asked during his January 26, 2014, TV interview in Moscow what the decisive moment was or why he blew the whistle, he replied: “Sort of the breaking point was seeing the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress. ... Seeing that really meant for me there was no going back.”[32


The deep state considers enhanced security to be very necessary Tom, and there will be few in government that don't agree. Not to mock your attempts, but I would say it's a dead issue to fight against in a country that runs roughshod over the world. The other side, whoever they are at the moment, are going to be fighting back, and some of them will be within.

The deep state agencies will always take a position against Trump. They must assuredly see him as an enemy of the country because of how he's so quickly destroying America's image. I think that means that both the Democrats and the Republicans are going to side with the deep state and against Trump.

On the part of the Republicans, that can continue to fall short of taking him down. He will be tolerated for political expediency but he will be kept under control by the Generals that surround him now. Kelly says, let him tweet but just ignore him.

As an aside, what fear the deep state must feel when they know that Trump is let loose and alone with leaders of other major super powers. All Americans can be sure that those other leaders have milked all they need out of Trump on the US's endgame of world domination.

Can there be any mystery over why the deep state is so actively working against Trump. I would suggest that they could be making plans to stop the damage, however the deep state would go about doing that!
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #95 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 2:04pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 12:11pm:
The deep state considers enhanced security to be very necessary Tom, and there will be few in government that don't agree. Not to mock your attempts, but I would say it's a dead issue to fight against in a country that runs roughshod over the world. The other side, whoever they are at the moment, are going to be fighting back, and some of them will be within.

The deep state agencies will always take a position against Trump. They must assuredly see him as an enemy of the country because of how he's so quickly destroying America's image. I think that means that both the Democrats and the Republicans are going to side with the deep state and against Trump.

On the part of the Republicans, that can continue to fall short of taking him down. He will be tolerated for political expediency but he will be kept under control by the Generals that surround him now. Kelly says, let him tweet but just ignore him.

As an aside, what fear the deep state must feel when they know that Trump is let loose and alone with leaders of other major super powers. All Americans can be sure that those other leaders have milked all they need out of Trump on the US's endgame of world domination.

Can there be any mystery over why the deep state is so actively working against Trump. I would suggest that they could be making plans to stop the damage, however the deep state would go about doing that!


I should have mentioned that Clapper was Director of US Intelligence, head of all the secret police, when he lied under oath to Congress, which you may know, and former CIA Director John Brennan is also bashing Trump.  Both of them are about as deep state as you can get.

Trump said that the CIA wouldn't allow him (I forget his exact words) to release the rest of the Kennedy murder documents as required by law, and now Trump has referred to Clapper and Brennan as "political hacks."

I'm no fan of Trump's but I gotta say I admire his fiestiness.

  
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Don_G
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #96 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 3:14pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 2:04pm:
I should have mentioned that Clapper was Director of US Intelligence, head of all the secret police, when he lied under oath to Congress, which you may know, and former CIA Director John Brennan is also bashing Trump.  Both of them are about as deep state as you can get.

Trump said that the CIA wouldn't allow him (I forget his exact words) to release the rest of the Kennedy murder documents as required by law, and now Trump has referred to Clapper and Brennan as "political hacks."

I'm no fan of Trump's but I gotta say I admire his fiestiness.



Tom, I'm still not disagreeing with anything you say. Especially on Clapper and Brennan, of which I have no reason or even inclination to disagree!

And maybe even more to the point, I agree that Trump has demonstrated some feistiness. I even personally see some good coming out of that in the sense that his position on Putin/Russia is completely against the grain of your country's agenda. However, I interpret that not as an antiwar/anti-belligerent stance but a need for self-preservation.

I think that Trump is indeed guilty of some covert interactions with Putin/Russia, even though it likely wouldn't be anything more than what would be deemed as acceptable and within the ordinary for other presidents. (notwithstanding illegal dealings, etc.)

My firm position and understanding is that the deep state sees Trump as a clear and present danger to your country. I believe that he is exactly that, if one is aware of the US gameplan of aggression.

In the eyes of the deep state, and indeed in the eyes of the huge majority of Americans, Russia and China are the enemy.

And fwiw, in my opinion that is absolutely true. Russia and China will indeed stand in the way of US control of the economics of the 21st. century, and of the world. Vice versa is fair turn about as the reality  develops regarding China/Russia ascending to power.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #97 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 8:39pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 2:04pm:
I should have mentioned that Clapper was Director of US Intelligence, head of all the secret police, when he lied under oath to Congress, which you may know, and former CIA Director John Brennan is also bashing Trump.  Both of them are about as deep state as you can get.

Trump said that the CIA wouldn't allow him (I forget his exact words) to release the rest of the Kennedy murder documents as required by law, and now Trump has referred to Clapper and Brennan as "political hacks."

I'm no fan of Trump's but I gotta say I admire his fiestiness.



Tom, you might be interested in What Ron Paul and Daniel have to say about Trump's Asia tour. I think it reinforces the truth on how you're raised the issue.
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2017/11/13/ron-paul-asks-is-trump-getting-a-bad-rap...
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #98 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 2:25pm
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Don_G wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 3:14pm:
Tom, I'm still not disagreeing with anything you say. Especially on Clapper and Brennan, of which I have no reason or even inclination to disagree!


I'm not disagreeing with you, either.

Brennan was quoted in the press as saying last Sunday that "I think Mr.Trump (Note, not President Trump.) is, for whatever reason, either intimidated by Mr. Putin or afraid of what he can do, or what might come out as a result of these investigations."

1.  The NSA, CIA, and the rest of the secret police must ALREADY HAVE ALL THE INFO THAT CAN  "come out of these investigations and yet they have provided no evidence implicating the Trump team in collaborating with Russians to manipulate the election.

2.  Both Brennan and Clapper have been involved with secret police for so long, manipulating information and creating disinformation,  that they are probably incapable of telling the truth;  probably no longer even knowing the meaning of the word "truth."

Of course I could be totally wrong.  Putin may be blackmailing Trump with information that he holds, but it will take some very strong  unimpeachable evidence to convince me of this.
  
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Re: The Deep State
Reply #99 - Nov 14th, 2017 at 2:44pm
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Tom Palven wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:08am:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/john-w-whitehead/silent-coup/

Whitehead doesn't seem to provide any solutions to the problem of the Deep State.

If it actually exists to the extent he claims it would seem that only US bankruptcy can free North America and the rest of the world from it's clutches.

no cuz the western deep state is run by the Rothschilds  and there frinds and every rich person diversifies so even if the us whent bank rupt thay would be fine the olny thing that can end the deep state is an alien invasion
  
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