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Jeff
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #110 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:10am
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Tom, if kaz replies with something mentioning "the consent of the governed" I'll laugh out loud!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #111 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:11am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:05am:
In 2013 Robert Mueller, who was then director of all the secret police testified before Congress that the NSA didn't spy on a single US citizen.

Later in 2013 Edward Snowden's Wikileaks proved that the NSA collects records on millions of US citizens, showing Mueller to be a bald-faced  liar.

Mueller should be in prison, but instead the Deep State wants Snowden in prison and Mueller has been put in charge of investigating Trump

Snowden also turned up evidence that the US and England overthrew the only democratically-elected government in a Mid-Eastern Muslim country in Iran in 1953, something that had remained secret from average US citizens for over 60 years.

The CIA Kennedy documents were supposed to be made public 25 years after his murder, then that was changed to 50 years, and now it's been 60 years.

It's a valid question as to why they are still secret, and you make a friggin' asinine comment about a totally irrelevant conspiracy theory.

Why?

Seriously, why?
I should have quoted you in my reply. I'll do that now.
BTW, the democratically elected government of Iran sucked/sucks.
  
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Tom Palven
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #112 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:27am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:11am:
I should have quoted you in my reply. I'll do that now.
BTW, the democratically elected government of Iran sucked/sucks.


And the murderous Shah the the CIA installed was your kind of libertarian and Operation Ajax was a good, well-intentioned, deed.

Got it.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #113 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:41am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:05am:
In 2013 Robert Mueller, who was then director of all the secret police testified before Congress that the NSA didn't spy on a single US citizen.

Later in 2013 Edward Snowden's Wikileaks proved that the NSA collects records on millions of US citizens, showing Mueller to be a bald-faced  liar.

Mueller should be in prison, but instead the Deep State wants Snowden in prison and Mueller has been put in charge of investigating Trump

Snowden also turned up evidence that the US and England overthrew the only democratically-elected government in a Mid-Eastern Muslim country in Iran in 1953 with Operation Ajax, something that had remained secret from average US citizens for over 60 years.

The CIA Kennedy murder documents were supposed to be made public after 25 years, then that was changed to 50 years, and now it's been 60 years.

It's a valid question as to why they are still secret, and you make a friggin' asinine comment about a totally irrelevant conspiracy theory.

Why?

Seriously, why?


And you support Sharia law in the West why?  Now that's idiotic
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #114 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:43am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 8:10am:
Tom, if kaz replies with something mentioning "the consent of the governed" I'll laugh out loud!


I don't know how that would fit into this discussion.  The Shah was a despot and murderer, but the Iranians were relatively free as long as they stayed out of politics, even to travel freely to and from Iran.  What they were replaced with was far worse.  Does that justify propping up despots?  Not really.

But where would consent of the governed come into play?  They don't have it either way.  We're dealing with a region where they don't have any experience with choosing their own government and don't really understand the concept
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #115 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:53am
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:41am:
And you support Sharia law in the West why?  Now that's idiotic


Again you dodge a valid question with an off-the-wall, thread-disrupting troll-type comment.  Why?

I sincerely am wondering where you are coming from.  Where, and why, indeed.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #116 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:03am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 9:53am:
Again you dodge a valid question with an off-the-wall, thread-disrupting troll-type comment.  Why?

I sincerely am wondering where you are coming from.  Where, and why, indeed.


Gawd you're clueless.  Because that's what you keep doing to me.  I keep trying to respond to your posts, and you respond by making up a bunch of ridiculous shit telling me I have positions that aren't remotely my positions.  Things I never said, thought or meant.  I told you I was going to do that now.

If you want to cut the crap and have real discussions where you address things that I actually said instead of making up ridiculous shit and responding to that, I'll have serious discussions with you.  Else I'm just going to keep doing to you what you keep doing to me.

So you in, Sport?  You going to start responding to my actual points and stop making up stupid shit and making up that I said that?
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #117 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 11:15am
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 10:03am:
If you want to cut the crap and have real discussions where you address things that I actually said instead of making up ridiculous shit and responding to that, I'll have serious discussions with you. 


Okay, how about you address my above post #109 in a serious manner?

"In 2013 Robert Mueller, who was then director of all the secret police testified before Congress that the NSA didn't spy on a single US citizen.

Later in 2013 Edward Snowden's Wikileaks proved that the NSA collects records on millions of US citizens, showing Mueller to be a bald-faced  liar.

Mueller should be in prison, but instead the Deep State wants Snowden in prison and Mueller has been put in charge of investigating Trump.

Snowden also turned up evidence that the US and England overthrew the only democratically-elected government in a Mid-Eastern Muslim country in Iran in 1953 with Operation Ajax, something that had remained secret from average US citizens for over 60 years.

The CIA Kennedy murder documents were supposed to be made public after 25 years, then that was changed to 50 years, and now it's been 60 years.

Why?"


My own speculation is that Oswald was a CIA operative and also a double agent for Cuba and/or Russia  and that's just too embarrassing for the CIA publics relations department to ever have to admit.

So, how about you either ignoring my post or making a serious comment?




  
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kaz
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #118 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 11:20am
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Tom Palven wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 11:15am:
Okay, how about you address my above post #109 in a serious manner?

"In 2013 Robert Mueller, who was then director of all the secret police testified before Congress that the NSA didn't spy on a single US citizen.

Later in 2013 Edward Snowden's Wikileaks proved that the NSA collects records on millions of US citizens, showing Mueller to be a bald-faced  liar.

Mueller should be in prison, but instead the Deep State wants Snowden in prison and Mueller has been put in charge of investigating Trump

Snowden also turned up evidence that the US and England overthrew the only democratically-elected government in a Mid-Eastern Muslim country in Iran in 1953 with Operation Ajax, something that had remained secret from average US citizens for over 60 years.

The CIA Kennedy murder documents were supposed to be made public after 25 years, then that was changed to 50 years, and now it's been 60 years.

Why?"

My own speculation is that Oswald was a CIA operative and also a double agent for Cuba and/or Russia  and that's just too embarrassing for the CIA publics relations department to ever admit.

But how about you either ignoring my post or making a serious comment?


Gotcha, when I said I need to know if you want to have serious discussions or keep making up crap I didn't say and addressing it as if I did, I was asking you to give me a chance to be serious.

Gee, thanks for the chance.  Now answer the question.  Are you going to address what I actually say?  Or keep addressing crap that I didn't?  Like this:

kaz:  I want to pull our military entirely out of the middle east
Tom:  Oh, you are justifying interventionism

kaz:  I want to pull our military out of all foreign countries
Tom:  Oh, you want to prevent foreign countries from having our Constitutional rights

My favorite was the last one where I kept saying MIC was not a conspiracy, but it was a lobby which directly harms the American people.  After a bunch of squawking about how I want to invade everyone, you came back and agreed with what I said in the first place.

What's it going to be, Tom.  You going to cut the crap?  If you say yes, that's fine, I'll drop it and go forward.  But I wasn't asking you to give me a chance to address your post and wait to see what's behind door number 3
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Tom Palven
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Re: Is there really a "Deep State"?
Reply #119 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 11:27am
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kaz wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 at 11:20am:
Gotcha, when I said I need to know if you want to have serious discussions or keep making up crap I didn't say and addressing it as if I did, I was asking you to give me a chance to be serious.

Gee, thanks for the chance.  Now answer the question.  Are you going to address what I actually say?  Or keep addressing crap that I didn't?  Like this:

kaz:  I want to pull our military entirely out of the middle east
Tom:  Oh, you are justifying interventionism

kaz:  I want to pull our military out of all foreign countries
Tom:  Oh, you want to prevent foreign countries from having our Constitutional rights

My favorite was the last one where I kept saying MIC was not a conspiracy, but it was a lobby which directly harms the American people.  After a bunch of squawking about how I want to invade everyone, you came back and agreed with what I said in the first place.

What's it going to be, Tom.  You going to cut the crap?


I am coming to the conclusion that you can't be deflecting my threads and jamming them up with irrelevancies by mere coincidence, and that you are probably a paid troll for one of the, what, 17?, secret police agencies.

You'd probably better leave and come back under a different pseudonym.
  
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