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Jeff
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #90 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 5:08pm
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thermf5 wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 5:01pm:
Harssment is an act of aggression  did u tell him to leave u alone or f off I don't think so telling someone to kill them self's is not agresstion
Your comprehension is as bad as your composition and spelling and punctuation. You fail communications.

I suggest the lizard save innocents by committing suicide.

The lizard lies and says I "tell" it to kill itself, when all I keep 'telling' it to do is buy it's Mom a gun and lessons.
  

"Free hate speech"
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thermf5
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #91 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 8:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 5:08pm:
Your comprehension is as bad as your composition and spelling and punctuation. You fail communications.

I suggest the lizard save innocents by committing suicide.

The lizard lies and says I "tell" it to kill itself, when all I keep 'telling' it to do is buy it's Mom a gun and lessons.

Dude it was a hypothetical Jeff I am actually defending ur f
Rights for once and u have to think we are enimies I was saying opo is the agresser not u
  
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kaz
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #92 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:05pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 4:13pm:
He's one of the more libertarian posters on the site. He's a small government libertarian just like you are.

He wants jails and courts paid for by the taxpayer, without pure wealth redistribution.

You say I'm conflating libertarianism with anarchy but I'm only assuming what would happen if the NAP were followed. Harassing someone until they kill themselves isn't aggression. You'll be hard-pressed to say this should be a crime in a libertarian world.

I don't see why I'm not justified in assuming that a libertarian world would be a lot like it is on a libertarian forum, just like a neo-Nazi world would be a lot like it is on a neo-Nazi forum. Is there some phenomenon that causes this sort of sampling to be counter to reality? I've been to racist forums. They're a lot more accepting of other viewpoints than people are here. It's a dare: Try Stormfront. Look at how people talk to one another. There are certainly heated discussions but it doesn't just degrade to pure insults every thread.

And you essentially tell me I can't judge an ideology by its bearers. If the people who flock to a libertarian forum choose to win by insulting, and the people who go to Stormfront don't, I can only assume that this is because there is some tendency here.


No, Jeff is not small government like I am.  I want an actual small government.  Jeff like all the other establishment Republicans talks about smaller government until you start talking about what he's actually going to cut.

And you've picked a bunch of people on a libertarian forum who aren't libertarian.  Don and Merklestan are authoritarian leftists.  Crystallis is an anarchist.  Chief is pretty libertarian other than economically.  He doesn't do that.  I used to rag on you more, but you seem to be trying harder to make sense and I've been giving every chance to having rational discussions with you because of it.  You have to have noticed that
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #93 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:44pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
No, Jeff is not small government like I am.


Ask him.

kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
And you've picked a bunch of people on a libertarian forum who aren't libertarian.


By what metric? You're just going to keep doing the Muslim Shuffle on this. If you're going to define over half the posters on a libertarian forum and the Libertarian Party as un-libertarian, you need a solid basis for that other than your own opinion.

What should I use as a basis for what libertarianism is?

You've already ruled out Rothbard. You've ruled out the Libertarian Party. The only thing you haven't ruled out is yourself, and you are a poster on Libertarian's Forum. So I have taken into account the posters on Libertarian's Forum.

Patient: Doc, I don't want to be injected with the AIDS virus. They'll sap my immune system and I'll die.
Doctor: What a biased load of racist garbage. Each HIV virus is an individual. How dare you judge the individuals in this vial by what unrelated individuals have done?
Patient: But... It's kind of a usual thing for those kinds of viruses to do. I'm still taking a huge risk, statistically, even if I don't judge them individually.
Doctor: That's retarded. The ones that do that aren't real HIV viruses. Ignorant people call them that.
Patient: Okay, but you're still going to inject me with what is categorically HIV, so-
Doctor: Shut up and stick out your arm, or you're a racist, tribalist piece of shit who prejudges individuals.
Patient: Sigh. Okay.

kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
You have to have noticed that


Of course I have. And I thank you for it.

Jeff wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 4:59pm:
Sure, their are racists of all political persuasions, but if you are a racist too, they will love you for that alone, and because they are narrowly tribal minded, they are almost all authoritarians who think their tribe should rule and kill the 'others'.


You have to understand that while you may have better philosophical motives, the end result of your philosophy is precisely what you just shat on.

You want your group - the people who have rights - to rule, you just don't call it rule. You call it, "I can shoot you because you have no more rights than an animal."

Jeff wrote on Feb 26th, 2018 at 7:25am:
[My philosophy] has everything to do with the equality of rights and equal treatment under the law.


Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


Okay, so... equality... for anyone lucky enough to be included. Sounds like tribalism to me.

Jeff wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
No one can prevent you from thinking that short people are dangerous dolts and that whatever they believe must be wrong, but why would you think that's a reliable way to judge ideas?


If libertarians keep telling me I don't have rights and I should kill myself, then I am going to conclude that libertarians believe I don't have rights and I should kill myself.

I don't have rights by Rothbard's definition.

Rothbard, the big kahuna of Libertarianism himself.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #94 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:55pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:44pm:
Of course I have. And I thank you for it


You're welcome, but I wasn't fishing for appreciation.  I just wanted to be sure you know that I believe you've been working harder to make sense and I've followed up on my pledge that if you give me serious you get serious.  If you're making the effort, I'll give you latitude.  I don't expect perfect.

Your fake conversation made no sense to me.

Also, I don't care what Jeff says, you're not libertarian if you don't back it up with issues and Jeff doesn't back it up.   You're using Jeff to blame libertarians, and then say you can do that because Jeff says he's libertarian even though I actually am libertarian and I say he's not.

You don't mean anything if you don't back it up with action.  Jeff talks about small government, then argues all day long with any proposal to cut government.  Just like every other establishment Republican
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #95 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 11:19pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:55pm:
You're welcome, but I wasn't fishing for appreciation.  I just wanted to be sure you know that I believe you've been working harder to make sense and I've followed up on my pledge that if you give me serious you get serious.  If you're making the effort, I'll give you latitude.  I don't expect perfect.

Your fake conversation made no sense to me.

Also, I don't care what Jeff says, you're not libertarian if you don't back it up with issues and Jeff doesn't back it up.   You're using Jeff to blame libertarians, and then say you can do that because Jeff says he's libertarian even though I actually am libertarian and I say he's not.

You don't mean anything if you don't back it up with action.  Jeff talks about small government, then argues all day long with any proposal to cut government.  Just like every other establishment Republican


It's not just Jeff. Crystallas, Merkelstan, and Don all agree that I don't have rights, though I don't blame Don for this because he doesn't think anyone has rights.

If half the people who self-identify as libertarian want to kill me, gut me, and eat me (or at least think this is okay), and not even the nastiest racist has ever said something like that with a straight face, I have to think the problem is the ideology, or at least the people it attracts.

I don't include you, Burnsy, or Skychief in this, but it attracts a lot of people who are genuinely selfish and never made the discovery that others are people. A lot of them are intellectually toddlers who want to scream MINE MINE MINE and use the word "entitled" when anyone disagrees with them.

I'm not saying the philosophy is this, but it draws this. And it subsequently becomes contaminated with this.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #96 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 9:23am
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kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
No, Jeff is not small government like I am.  I want an actual small government.  Jeff like all the other establishment Republicans talks about smaller government until you start talking about what he's actually going to cut.


For a start, all of the Departments and Agencies not mentioned in the Constitution. To continue, applying the Constitutional limits to the taxing power would drastically cut revenue to the national government.

What I essentially want is the same small and strictly limited government that existed in 1789, which is not to say the the Department of State or the Department of Defense can't have more employees now than they did then, but they can't have illegally expanded roles.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #97 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 9:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:44pm:
I don't have rights by Rothbard's definition.

Rothbard, the big kahuna of Libertarianism himself.
Rothbard is an anarchic outlier, not "the big kahuna of Libertarianism".

Nevertheless, by your own admission, you are not human and therefore logically don't have human rights.
  

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Don_G
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #98 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 1:57pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:55pm:
You're welcome, but I wasn't fishing for appreciation.  I just wanted to be sure you know that I believe you've been working harder to make sense and I've followed up on my pledge that if you give me serious you get serious.  If you're making the effort, I'll give you latitude.  I don't expect perfect.

Your fake conversation made no sense to me.

Also, I don't care what Jeff says, you're not libertarian if you don't back it up with issues and Jeff doesn't back it up.   You're using Jeff to blame libertarians, and then say you can do that because Jeff says he's libertarian even though I actually am libertarian and I say he's not.

You don't mean anything if you don't back it up with action.  Jeff talks about small government, then argues all day long with any proposal to cut government.  Just like every other establishment Republican


Good luck pig, in your quest for find an ally who will agree with you in a serious way. When Oppo delivers the smackdown he's so well known for, try not to go completely berserk.
  
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kaz
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Re: Jeff is Why I Hate Freedom
Reply #99 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 6:23pm
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Good luck pig, in your quest for find an ally who will agree with you in a serious way. When Oppo delivers the smackdown he's so well known for, try not to go completely berserk.

  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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