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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) freeing school (Read 3201 times)
Jeff
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Re: freeing school
Reply #100 - Mar 2nd, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 2nd, 2018 at 2:25pm:
Right, I know what Lincoln called it and what the C.S. called it.

What do you call it and do you call the U.S. invasion of the C.S. and do you support it?


Unless such wars succeed, they are called rebellions or insurrections. When they do succeed, they are called Wars of Independence.

What I call the U.S. War to End Slavery is a barbaric waste of life and well being because of the arrogant evil obstinance of evil slavers who kept insisting they had a "right" to own people.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: freeing school
Reply #101 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 8:23am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 2nd, 2018 at 4:07pm:
Unless such wars succeed, they are called rebellions or insurrections. When they do succeed, they are called Wars of Independence.

What I call the U.S. War to End Slavery is a barbaric waste of life and well being because of the arrogant evil obstinance of evil slavers who kept insisting they had a "right" to own people.


Ok, so you still support the evil slavers (Lincoln and the rest of the U.S.) who insisted that they had the "right" to own people and the "right" to invade another country?  It seemed as if you were wavering on that.
  

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Jeff
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Re: freeing school
Reply #102 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 8:36am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 8:23am:
Ok, so you still support the evil slavers (Lincoln and the rest of the U.S.) who insisted that they had the "right" to own people and the "right" to invade another country?  It seemed as if you were wavering on that.
Nope, I call them evil because I think owning people as livestock is undeniably evil.

Lincoln didn't own slaves and didn't like slavery, and called the secession a "rebellion". The rebels shot first, at Ft. Sumter, but the civil war, the War to End Slavery in America, actually started in Kansas and Missouri, mainly as a result of the Compromise of 1850 and the Fugitive Slave Act, and it started before secession.

When the Republicans (including Lincoln) won the election, the slave states seceded and prepared to make war in the Territories in order to secure them as slave States for the CSA.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: freeing school
Reply #103 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 10:18am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 8:36am:
Nope, I call them evil because I think owning people as livestock is undeniably evil.

Lincoln didn't own slaves and didn't like slavery,
Lincoln fired one of his generals for freeing slaves.  There is no way he can be considered anti-slavery in any way.

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and called the secession a "rebellion". The rebels shot first, at Ft. Sumter, but the civil war, the War to End Slavery in America, actually started in Kansas and Missouri, mainly as a result of the Compromise of 1850 and the Fugitive Slave Act, and it started before secession.


So you don't believe that the C.S. was a nation?

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When the Republicans (including Lincoln) won the election, the slave states seceded and prepared to make war in the Territories in order to secure them as slave States for the CSA.


All of the United States were slave states, in that no slave could be free by escaping to any "free" state.  There were four states in which slavery was widely practiced and Lincoln assured them that they could continue to to that in his America.


  

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AlayneLeung
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Re: freeing school
Reply #104 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:02pm
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Totally and completely read all of Constitution Article I, Section 10.

The less northern States, that seceded from the United States, had formed a Confederation and that Confederation was a violation of the original Constitution.  Remember, Libertarians want a return to Constitutional Government. 
  
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Jeff
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Re: freeing school
Reply #105 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 10:18am:
Lincoln fired one of his generals for freeing slaves.  There is no way he can be considered anti-slavery in any way.


So you don't believe that the C.S. was a nation?


All of the United States were slave states, in that no slave could be free by escaping to any "free" state.  There were four states in which slavery was widely practiced and Lincoln assured them that they could continue to to that in his America.


You don't know enough about Lincoln, or you wouldn't say that about him.

The CSA didn't win their war of independence, so they were only a temporary nation. Lincoln insisted they were States of the U.S. that were in a state of rebellion. Either way, Lincoln had no power to free slaves by proclamation, whether the slaves were being held in the U.S. or not.

Lincoln was the President and Commander in Chief and a politician. He was willing to use political means to try to aid the war effort.

Free States had passed laws outlawing slavery in their States and they refused to honor the Fugitive Slave Act on good Constitutional grounds.

  
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Jeff
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Re: freeing school
Reply #106 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:19pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:02pm:
Totally and completely read all of Constitution Article I, Section 10.

The less northern States, that seceded from the United States, had formed a Confederation and that Confederation was a violation of the original Constitution.  Remember, Libertarians want a return to Constitutional Government. 
Just call them Slave States. "Less northern states" is an awkward euphemism.
  
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Don_G
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Re: freeing school
Reply #107 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:19pm:
Just call them Slave States. "Less northern states" is an awkward euphemism.


I recently heard that the term 'stinkin Lincoln' is quite popular in the less northern states. They just can't get over it!
  
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Jeff
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Re: freeing school
Reply #108 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 1:15pm
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I recently heard that the term 'stinkin Lincoln' is quite popular in the less northern states. They just can't get over it!
I've lived in the South since 1980 and never heard anyone mention Lincoln. You must be hanging around with people like Mad Dog Mahon...
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: freeing school
Reply #109 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 5:04pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:16pm:
You don't know enough about Lincoln, or you wouldn't say that about him.
Yet you have counter to the factual statements that Lincoln never banned slavery or recommended a ban of slavery in Union slave states and that he fired a general for freeing slaves.
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The CSA didn't win their war of independence, so they were only a temporary nation. Lincoln insisted they were States of the U.S. that were in a state of rebellion. Either way, Lincoln had no power to free slaves by proclamation, whether the slaves were being held in the U.S. or not.
So Lincoln's logic was:

So the emancipation proclamation was a farce and Lincoln knew it.  He did have the power to ask congress to free slaves in all states.  There is no record of him having done that.  His own words say that he didn't care about the slavery issue.  The claims made well after the war started that the purpose was to free slaves was a ploy to win foreign support for the Union and to discourage foreign support of the Confederacy.

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Lincoln was the President and Commander in Chief and a politician. He was willing to use political means to try to aid the war effort.

Free States had passed laws outlawing slavery in their States and they refused to honor the Fugitive Slave Act on good Constitutional grounds.



What?!?!?!?!?

How could they refuse to honor the fugitive slave clause of the constitution on constitutional grounds? 

Is that how Republicans did things in those days?  They sound just like our modern day Democrats!


  

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