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Jeff
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #70 - May 17th, 2017 at 8:15am
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SkyChief wrote on May 16th, 2017 at 10:55pm:
I have deep respect for the Founding Fathers. They were not infallible, but these guys were pretty smart dudes.  Who would have guessed that they were 98% right on evrything?
The latest research seems to indicate that the Founders were right only 96% of the time... Cool
  
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Jeff
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #71 - May 17th, 2017 at 8:16am
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SkyChief wrote on May 16th, 2017 at 10:55pm:
I have deep respect for the Founding Fathers. They were not infallible, but these guys were pretty smart dudes.  Who would have guessed that they were 98% right on evrything?

They were certainly wrong to not make it more clear in the Constitution that the commerce clause and the general welfare objective were not grants of general power...
  
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #72 - May 17th, 2017 at 10:03am
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Jeff wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 8:16am:
They were certainly wrong to not make it more clear in the Constitution that the commerce clause and the general welfare objective were not grants of general power...
True, they could have been clearer on that. The general welfare clause should have stated clearly that the government should never pass Laws which would compel citizens to purchase a product or service, and then punish those who don't comply.  Had they been more clear, we wouldn't have this ObamaCare fiasco.
  
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #73 - May 17th, 2017 at 12:35pm
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I was thinking of starting a poll on whether Comey's memos exist and whether they say what is being claimed, but decided this thread would do.

So, it seems that the topic is actually being avoided on some sites. That could be that some sites don't want to take a chance of buying into the story too soon, and end up being smeared.

I'm not going to be so cautious. They are real and Trump has been caught trying to obstruct justice! It's too obvious!

However, will the Dems be able to make it stick? Still, it depends on whether the Repub congress sticks with Trump or they desert the sinking ship.

So who want to take a change on the question? One way or another?

And of course, it leads right into the question of whether the Repub congress critters desert him or not. I'm guessing they will stick with him on this one at least.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #74 - May 17th, 2017 at 1:02pm
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Don_G wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 12:35pm:
...will the Dems be able to make [the obstruction of justice indictment] stick?
IMO, there is not enough evidence to make it stick.  Trump had every right to fire the FBI Director. Any sitting President does.  It looks as though Trump fired Comey in hopes that the FBI would no longer pursue the Flynn/Russian Investigation. And this might have enough traction to have impeachment hearings.  But this would be big mistake because its almost certain that Trump would be exonerated of any wrongdoings. Their only chance would be to get Trump to lie and hit him with perjury caharges.  But that's being really desperate, imo.

Don_G wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 12:35pm:
Still, it depends on whether the Repub congress sticks with Trump or they desert the sinking ship.
Agreed.
Here's a goofy statement that Republican Obstructionist John McCain said earlier today:

"I think [the firing of the FBI Director] is reaching the point where it's a Watergate size and scale and a couple of other scandals that you and I have seen.  It's a centipede that the shoe continues to drop.  And every couple of days there's a new aspect of this really unhappy situation."


Centipede???  WTF??  Grin Grin Cheesy
  
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Don_G
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #75 - May 17th, 2017 at 1:25pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 1:02pm:
IMO, there is not enough evidence to make it stick.  Trump had every right to fire the FBI Director. Any sitting President does.  It looks as though Trump fired Comey in hopes that the FBI would no longer pursue the Flynn/Russian Investigation. And this might have enough traction to have impeachment hearings.  But this would be big mistake because its almost certain that Trump would be exonerated of any wrongdoings. Their only chance would be to get Trump to lie and hit him with perjury caharges.  But that's being really desperate, imo.

Agreed.
Here's a goofy statement that Republican Obstructionist John McCain said earlier today:

"I think [the firing of the FBI Director] is reaching the point where it's a Watergate size and scale and a couple of other scandals that you and I have seen.  It's a centipede that the shoe continues to drop.  And every couple of days there's a new aspect of this really unhappy situation."


Centipede???  WTF??  Grin Grin Cheesy


I don't doubt that Trump had a 'right' to fire Comey, but that's not really the issue is it. It's alleged that Trump asked Comey to drop the Flynn affair and Comey refused and he was fired for that.

If true then that's obstruction of justice, pretty pure and simple. If true?

I have a real suspicion that what is going on here is that one side or the other, or both sides have tapes.

Trump suggested he did in a nuanced way.

The Comey memo we heard was too detailed to be a memo. The ploy is a familiar one because I've used it myself but I won't go into it unless I'm asked to. I'll do it for you in a p.m. if you request it. In any case, it goes like this:

The conversation is quoted in a way that makes it pretty obvious that the person quoting what was said in the conversation is adding detail that can't be from memory. He gives the hint that it's on tape but he avoids saying it. And the reason why he avoids saying it is because then the tapes will be subpoened. Maybe? And it's a big maybe.

or

He adds detail to the memo that causes the other party to 'think' that it's off a tape. That then puts the other party, Trump, in a very awkward position. Does he take a chance of lying and then get caught flatfooted with a tape that 'could' exist?

I think I've explained it well enough for you to think it through but if not then ask for clarification.

Also keep in mind that this can work for both sides. Suppose Trump has tapes and they don't tell Comey's story?

Fun ehhhh!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #76 - May 17th, 2017 at 2:35pm
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Don_G wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 1:25pm:
He adds detail to the memo that causes the other party to 'think' that it's off a tape. That then puts the other party, Trump, in a very awkward position. Does he take a chance of lying and then get caught flatfooted with a tape that 'could' exist?
It is very awkward for Trump, no doubt. I don't think it will be difficult to get Trump to lie under oath. If anything will be his undoing, it will be lies. (imo)

Don_G wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 1:25pm:
I think I've explained it well enough for you to think it through but if not then ask for clarification.
You have explained it very well, thanks.

Don_G wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 1:25pm:
Also keep in mind that this can work for both sides. Suppose Trump has tapes and they don't tell Comey's story?
There are still a lot of unknowns. The MSNBC and CNN goons are having much fun spinning and speculating.
  
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Jeff
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #77 - May 17th, 2017 at 4:31pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 10:03am:
True, they could have been clearer on that. The general welfare clause should have stated clearly that the government should never pass Laws which would compel citizens to purchase a product or service, and then punish those who don't comply.

The powers of Congress and the limitations that are put on them are in the main body of the Constitution.

Putting special limitations on Congressional powers in the Preamble...( Grin) as well as being inelegant and structurally wrong, might be used to argue that other limitations on the powers of Congress were less important and could therefor be avoided more easily.

It's a bad idea on many levels Chief.

The Tenth Amendment makes it very clear, powers not granted were not granted, not even by trying to incorporate the Preamble into Section 8... Cheesy

Well, that's what "legal theory" and court "decisions" have done isn't it? Turned "promoting the general Welfare" from a policy guideline in the Preamble into 'providing for' the general welfare as a Section 8 enumerated power of Congress.

No one has ever justified this in law, because it can't be justified. It's tyranny by usurpation, usurpation by misinterpretation and outright lies. Cry
  
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Jeff
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #78 - May 17th, 2017 at 4:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
It is very awkward for Trump, no doubt. I don't think it will be difficult to get Trump to lie under oath.
He will probably be permitted to use the 'lizard defense'. He can tell us that his evil capitalist father taught him to lie when ke was just a sprout, constantly reminding him to practice lying, because that's the only way you can ever gain and hold onto wealth and power!

Come to think of it, isn't it because he is a "strong" man that lots of people supported him?

Anyway, that's his defense! His father indoctrinated him into evil 'capitalist' ways... Shocked

Is he making money yet by Presidential dealing? Is anyone watching?
  
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Trump Fires FBI Director Comey!
Reply #79 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:41pm
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Jeff wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
He will probably be permitted to use the 'lizard defense'. He can tell us that his evil capitalist father taught him to lie when ke was just a sprout, constantly reminding him to practice lying, because that's the only way you can ever gain and hold onto wealth and power!

Come to think of it, isn't it because he is a "strong" man that lots of people supported him?

Anyway, that's his defense! His father indoctrinated him into evil 'capitalist' ways... Shocked

Is he making money yet by Presidential dealing? Is anyone watching?
All politicians lie. Its a fact of life. But only the savvy ones know how lie under oath.  Bill was a terrible liar.  But Hillary is an adept liar. She had Comey bamboozled.  Comey looked us square in the eyes and told us about all of Hillary's lies. He told us about the risk she took by mishandling classified information. He told us that he believed her lie about not knowing that (C) on the header of a document means THAT IT IS EFFING CLASSIFIED. And then he told us that he would not recommend the DoJ to pursue any indictments!

That advice was not his to give.  His (former) job was to investigate and report the facts -  not to make recommendations of how to interpret the Law!   President Obama should have fired Comey and immediately call for a Grand Jury.

On May 2nd, Trump Tweeted:

"FBI Director Comey was the best thing that ever happened to Hillary Clinton in that he gave her a free pass for many bad deeds! That phony."

So, Trump's displeasure with Comey's (poor) performance is not in question. But the timing was terrible.  Trump should have fired Comey on January 21st.  Obama should have fired him on July 5th 2016.
  
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