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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Drug Legalization (Read 701 times)
DnSn107
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Drug Legalization
May 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm
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I understand legalization of marijuana, heroin, and psychedelic drugs, as they harm no one but the user. However, I don't understand legalization of stimulants like cocaine and methamphetamine. Sure, decriminilization is fine, but total legalization? These drugs make users immediately aggressive and violent, which means they do not solely affect the user.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #1 - May 22nd, 2017 at 7:32pm
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Booze makes people aggressive and violent and its legal.  One of the lessons from prohibition was that prohibition actually makes people more violent and aggressive.
  
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DnSn107
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #2 - May 22nd, 2017 at 8:36pm
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ahhell wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 7:32pm:
Booze makes people aggressive and violent and its legal.  One of the lessons from prohibition was that prohibition actually makes people more violent and aggressive.   


But there's a key difference between hard stimulants and alcohol, that being that stimulants make you immediately agressive, so one cannot use them without becoming dangerous to others. Alcohol, on the other hand, can be consumed in limited doses, so it does not inevitably make one aggressive. In other words, one can use it without becoming dangerous to others.

Where the line would be drawn marking the point at which a substance causes an individual to become too aggressive for the substance to be legal, I don't know. I even admit that the line I drew between alcohol and stimulants is blurry in some scenarios.



Imagine a hypothetical substance of which consumption would cause the user to immediately kill the first person he or she encountered after use. This may be impossible, but it's a valid scenario to test the principle. And if the principle is that something should not be illegal simply because it causes a person to become dangerous, this item would be on the market.

(In terms of ratios, not raw numbers)
Video Games: Will rarely cause aggression
Alcohol: Will occasionally cause aggression
Hard Stimulants: Will usually cause aggression
Hypothetical Drug: Will always cause aggression

Legally, where do you draw the line between legal and illegal substances? Clearly, the first item should be legal and the last should not be, but what is the underlying principle that justifies that?
  
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merkelstan
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #3 - May 22nd, 2017 at 9:26pm
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DnSn107 wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 8:36pm:
But there's a key difference between hard stimulants and alcohol, that being that stimulants make you immediately agressive, so one cannot use them without becoming dangerous to others.


I doubt you believe this.
  

"Obviously, the lack of any evidence just proves Russia is behind the lack of evidence." - AZJoe
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The Opposition
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2017 at 9:46pm
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DnSn107 wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 8:36pm:
Imagine a hypothetical substance of which consumption would cause the user to immediately kill the first person he or she encountered after use. This may be impossible, but it's a valid scenario to test the principle. And if the principle is that something should not be illegal simply because it causes a person to become dangerous, this item would be on the market.

(In terms of ratios, not raw numbers)
Video Games: Will rarely cause aggression
Alcohol: Will occasionally cause aggression
Hard Stimulants: Will usually cause aggression
Hypothetical Drug: Will always cause aggression

Legally, where do you draw the line between legal and illegal substances? Clearly, the first item should be legal and the last should not be,


If you want to go by the purest libertarianism imaginable, they should all be legal, including the last. When the druggo aggresses, then he can be punished, but not before.

Most people will make compromises for reasonability and practicality, however. And then, it just depends how much you want to compromise. What's the line? Well, how much rights violation are you willing to engage in for the sake of sanity, function, and the innocent? Society can't function without some. After all, we accept a less than 100% threshold of guilt and we punish some innocents so our legal system doesn't just let everyone go.

Where's the line? Well, since you're the one making the compromise, that's up to you.

Personally I think a reasonably fair compromise would be to simply have some communities where drugs are legal and some where they are not. If you want to get away from the violence, move and accept that you can't do drugs either.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #5 - May 23rd, 2017 at 9:02am
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DnSn107 wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 8:36pm:
But there's a key difference between hard stimulants and alcohol, that being that stimulants make you immediately agressive...

It never worked that way for me or anyone I have ever known... Is there some evidence about your claim that "stimulants make you immediately agressive (sic)..."?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #6 - May 23rd, 2017 at 9:08am
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The Opposition wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 9:46pm:
If you want to go by the purest libertarianism imaginable, they should all be legal, including the last. When the druggo aggresses, then he can be punished, but not before.

Most people will make compromises for reasonability and practicality, however. And then, it just depends how much you want to compromise. What's the line?
It's clear. If you commit aggressive acts against others or damage their property, you should be held accountable. If you mind your own business and don't hurt people or damage their stuff, you can sniff starting fluid or epoxy until your brain leaks out.

Reckless endangerment is an exception, it works on a case by case basis. If your employer (or the Highway Patrol) sees you acting erratically, they can and should pull you aside and give you a ticket or a breath test or fire you.
  
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DnSn107
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #7 - May 23rd, 2017 at 9:09am
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merkelstan wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 9:26pm:
I doubt you believe this.


Some people can use them without becoming immediately aggressive. So I'll rephrase that to "few can use them without becoming immediately aggressive."
  
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DnSn107
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #8 - May 23rd, 2017 at 9:12am
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Jeff wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:02am:
It never worked that way for me or anyone I have ever known... Is there some evidence about your claim that "stimulants make you immediately agressive (sic)..."?



They cause you to become confused, irritable, psychotic, and anxious, and all those symptoms cause you to behave in irrational and often dangerous ways.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #9 - May 23rd, 2017 at 9:14am
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The Opposition wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 9:46pm:
If you want to get away from the violence, move and accept that you can't do drugs either.

The violence (as a genius like you must know) is a result of the illegality.
"PCP made me kill them" is just a lame excuse for violence. It would probably be more accurate to say "I wanted to hurt people, so I took drugs that would lower my inhibitions."

Alcohol is probably the best inhibition lowering drug known to man. If you want to get away from it, you could go live among the Amish. Second best, stay out of bars.
  
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