Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Drug Legalization
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Drug Legalization (Read 951 times)
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 4870
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #20 - May 24th, 2017 at 9:28pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:14am:
The violence (as a genius like you must know) is a result of the illegality.


No, it's not. Alcohol is legal now, you know.

Jeff wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:14am:
"PCP made me kill them" is just a lame excuse for violence. It would probably be more accurate to say "I wanted to hurt people, so I took drugs that would lower my inhibitions."


Pretty much, which is why, ideally, the law should be completely blind to whether you're on a drug or not.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DnSn107
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31
Joined: May 21st, 2017
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #21 - May 24th, 2017 at 10:18pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 24th, 2017 at 6:52am:
Anyway, you think people willingly use these drugs because they like feeling "confused, irritable, psychotic, and anxious"? Or because they want to become "aggressive and angry"?


I don't think most people willingly use these drugs because they like feeling confused, irritable, psychotic, and anxious. I don't think most people use these drugs because they want to become aggressive and angry. Perhaps some do, but I assume most want to use it to drown out feelings or because the high of it simply sounds fun. The aggression or anger is simply a side effect they may or may not have initially accounted for, not the reason for their use.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 18733
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #22 - May 25th, 2017 at 7:53am
Print Post  
DnSn107 wrote on May 24th, 2017 at 10:18pm:
The aggression or anger is simply a side effect they may or may not have initially accounted for, not the reason for their use.
Exactly like the legal drugs being given to our children to control ADHD and those other alphabet childhood problems, and lots and lots of legal drugs taken by adults to do things like help them get to sleep.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 18733
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #23 - May 25th, 2017 at 7:59am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2017 at 9:28pm:
No, it's not. Alcohol is legal now, you know.




I knew that!

Alcohol use lowers inhibitions for most people. It doesn't cause anyone to become angry and violent, it simply dis-inhibits the few people who are already angry and violent. (Far more people who use alcohol seem to become happy, silly and amorous rather than violent...)

Alcohol prohibition, like the prohibition of other drugs that people want, leads to illegal production smuggling and distribution of those drugs, which is extremely profitable, because people really want them. This leads to the creation of criminal gangs and gang warfare over territories and profits.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DnSn107
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31
Joined: May 21st, 2017
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #24 - May 25th, 2017 at 9:19am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 25th, 2017 at 7:53am:
Exactly like the legal drugs being given to our children to control ADHD and those other alphabet childhood problems, and lots and lots of legal drugs taken by adults to do things like help them get to sleep.


That's why I brought up the entire thread, for the sake of a discussion about where the line is drawn. Clearly meth and cocaine will make you more aggressive than most childhood mental disorder medications, and that's the reason I wanted to discuss this, to find if anyone had any principled stance that would drawn a line somewhere between the two.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DnSn107
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31
Joined: May 21st, 2017
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #25 - May 25th, 2017 at 9:28am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 9:08am:
Reckless endangerment is an exception, it works on a case by case basis. If your employer (or the Highway Patrol) sees you acting erratically, they can and should pull you aside and give you a ticket or a breath test or fire you.


I don't understand the difference between reckless endangerment and hard stimulant use. In both situations, you are involving yourself in an activity that potentially puts others at risk, but have not yet aggressed. You said "If you commit aggressive acts against other people or damage their property, you should be held accountable." Reckless endangerment does neither.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 948
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #26 - May 25th, 2017 at 10:30am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 24th, 2017 at 3:44pm:
It's not in fact possible to make only certain really good drugs illegal, while allowing people to legally use diminished versions of the same drugs.

Very high proof moonshine is available (illegally) in the area where I live. So is very high potency (illegal) home grown marijuana and also meth or whatever you want.....
I don't deny that but I would argue that when alcohol was illegal, the high proof stuff was almost all you could get and there was a lot more violence associated with the trade in booze and a lot more people drinking poisoned booze. Where as now, its a lot easier to go get a six pack of beer or 80 proof vodka than high proof moonshine.  Thread slippage, why haven't you snitched on the purveyors of this moonshine?

I think DnSn107 is arguing from an incorrect premise.  That people are incapable of moderating use of certain "hard stimulants".  While that is probably true of some people just as some people are incapable of moderating use of alcohol, its almost certainly not true of all people.  I also think he/she underrates the negative consequences of prohibition.  Which is that the vast majority of violence associated with the drug trade is a direct consequence of prohibition not the use of the drugs.  And of course the expansion of the police state and erosion of civil rights that have resulted. 

Anyrate, no drug has proven to be worse for society than alcohol, we tried banning it to little reduction in consumption and a vast increase in violent and organized crime.   Would DnSn suggest banning alcohol again? If not why not?  Why doesn't that apply to so called hard stimulants?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2271
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #27 - May 25th, 2017 at 1:07pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on May 24th, 2017 at 3:44pm:
It's not in fact possible to make only certain really good drugs illegal, while allowing people to legally use diminished versions of the same drugs.

Very high proof moonshine is available (illegally) in the area where I live. So is very high potency (illegal) home grown marijuana and also meth or whatever you want.

When I was in college, I went to Wadleigh's Store and looked in the wine coolers in the back of the store for the best price/alcohol combination I could stand to drink. Usually I looked in the $1 and under cooler first... Hey, I was spending my own money, that I had to work for and didn't have a lot of... I drank lots of Richard's Old Style Hard Cider... 14% alcohol for $0.69/quart! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy)

Sometimes I bought 100 proof grain alcohol (edit: disclaimer. I had Quentin Clark's library card, which proved I was 22! So it was all completely legal!) and mixed it 50/50 with tap water. It made very good vodka! If I put in a good vodka bottle, everybody raved about the Russian's ability to make the worlds best vodka! Grin Of course that's nonsense. The same mixture in a Polish vodka bottle is far superior! Grin


How dismally stupid you are! You don't even know your country's proof measures. Seems like no American does yet?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 948
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #28 - May 25th, 2017 at 1:53pm
Print Post  
Don_G wrote on May 25th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
How dismally stupid you are! You don't even know your country's proof measures. Seems like no American does yet?

What about his post leads you to believe that?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Don_G
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2271
Location: British Columbia
Joined: May 8th, 2017
Re: Drug Legalization
Reply #29 - May 25th, 2017 at 2:06pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on May 25th, 2017 at 1:53pm:
What about his post leads you to believe that?


Stupid americans need to do their own homework. You and him will learn something today if you do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Drug Legalization
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy