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Don_G
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SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
May 28th, 2017 at 11:22am
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What is it? What does it mean for government to be socially responsible?
What American attitudes must change in order to bring about the change it will represent?
Can Americans at least come to accept that affordable health care is a right and that right is being denied by big corporations that profit off the backs of the people? The rest of the world has it. Why can't Americans embrace it with a change in attitude?

But health care is only one example among dozens of examples of the US destroying it's people's wellbeing.

What does it mean for government to be socially responsible?
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #1 - May 28th, 2017 at 5:03pm
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Don_G wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 11:22am:
What is it? What does it mean for government to be socially responsible?
Stop right there...

"Capitalism" is a poorly conceived created image of Marx. When Marx looked at the mercantile governments of his time, he saw they were bad for us ordinary people... But because he was ignorant, he blamed the cronies for the system that had been created by the Kings...

For a government to be responsible, it must be responsible to the People it governs.

Not just to  government officials and their cronies.

A government that is responsible only to itself and its chosen cronies is called tyranny. Not even Marx liked that sort of tyranny.
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #2 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:14pm
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Yo, G-man, are you speechless again?
Will you bloviate and talk aggressively in reply?
Tell me again how stupid I am to have learned something from all those classical liberal geniuses while you were listening to collectivist nonsense and imagining that "socially responsible capitalism" makes any kind of sense? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  
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The Opposition
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #3 - May 28th, 2017 at 9:48pm
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Don_G wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 11:22am:
What does it mean for government to be socially responsible?


For a government to be socially responsible it must stop the use of force and theft.
  

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Don_G
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #4 - May 29th, 2017 at 11:56am
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The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 9:48pm:
For a government to be socially responsible it must stop the use of force and theft.


Those two caveats would be givens. Except that I would ask you to define both because I hear you talking in extremes. The definitions are the key to further discussion on the idea of sociallly responsible.
  
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Don_G
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #5 - May 29th, 2017 at 12:06pm
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Jeff wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 5:03pm:
Stop right there...

"Capitalism" is a poorly conceived created image of Marx. When Marx looked at the mercantile governments of his time, he saw they were bad for us ordinary people... But because he was ignorant, he blamed the cronies for the system that had been created by the Kings...

For a government to be responsible, it must be responsible to the People it governs.

Not just to  government officials and their cronies.

A government that is responsible only to itself and its chosen cronies is called tyranny. Not even Marx liked that sort of tyranny.


Well done! You have at least partially defined socially responsible capitalism by yourself!

1. Responsible to the people.

2. Not just to government and it's cronies. Cronies?

3. #2 is tyranny.

4. Even Marx knew. Could he have been looking at the US as an example of how tyranny would come about?

Let's go slowly now and have a little closer look at #1. Government is responsible for the wellbeing of the people and what could be more important to their wellbeing than universal quality health care for all at a price that the people have the ability to pay.

This is exactly how it happens in all modern capitalist countries, with the exception of the US. Do you have anything else to say about health care or would you prefer to move on to more examples?
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #6 - May 29th, 2017 at 3:18pm
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 11:56am:
Those two caveats would be givens. Except that I would ask you to define both because I hear you talking in extremes. The definitions are the key to further discussion on the idea of sociallly responsible.
Extreme force would be setting of a nuke in a major city as an act of terror. Mass murder. Less extreme would be pushing Billy aside so you can get in front of him in line.

Being a brilliant guru, you can probably think of good examples of extreme theft and much less extreme thefts.

In fact, it's what people have always referred to as simply 'responsible' to not steal or resort to violence. It's that necessary corollary to Liberty that classical liberals have always talked about, personal responsibility. It's fairly easy to teach to most children at early ages.

It's really about all you need to have civilization instead of anarchic barbarism.
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2017 at 3:22pm
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 12:06pm:
1. Responsible to the people.

2. Not just to government and it's cronies. Cronies?

3. #2 is tyranny.

Are you having trouble with the word "cronies" too?

And what do you mean "not just to the government and the cronies"?

There is no circumstance in which cronyism is not synonymous with government corruption. A government that pretended to be responsible to the people while giving the peoples money to their cronies is as you say, at least partially corrupt.
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #8 - May 29th, 2017 at 3:32pm
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 12:06pm:
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4. Even Marx knew. Could he have been looking at the US as an example of how tyranny would come about?
I beg to disagree. Marx was clueless. It doesn't matter what Marx was looking at, he was ignorant of things he would have had to have known in order to create a "good" system of government.

Marx was looking at the European mercantile/crony capitalist/market 'socialist' economies that existed where he was (Western Europe) in his time.

What he saw was bad. Mercantile/crony capitalist/market 'socialist' economies are always bad.

Because Marx was ignorant of almost everything, he thought the bad things he was seeing were some newly discovered (by him) system of political economy, so he started the long and dismal history of creating new names for things you don't understand and think you've discovered. That's why Marx created the term "capitalism", because he was totally ignorant of economics and history and political economy, so he never heard of mercantilism or state 'socialism'.
  
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Jeff
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Re: SOCIALLY Responsible Capitalism!
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 12:06pm:
Let's go slowly now and have a little closer look at #1. Government is responsible for the wellbeing of the people and what could be more important to their wellbeing than universal quality health care for all at a price that the people have the ability to pay.

This is exactly how it happens in all modern capitalist countries, with the exception of the US. Do you have anything else to say about health care or would you prefer to move on to more examples?
It's obvious that economic liberty under an impartial rule of law is far better at providing people with anything and everything when compared with a government designed and bureaucratically interpreted and enforced "market".

Why would you imagine that (medical) insurance and doctoring would be any different? Free the Doctors, free the hospitals and free the insurance companies so that people can shop around and get the best deal.

  
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