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Don_G
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Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
May 28th, 2017 at 1:56pm
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https://www.rt.com/op-edge/389992-indonesia-borneo-kalimantan-palm-oil/

This is what US style capitalism represents best. There's nothing more important than profit.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #1 - May 28th, 2017 at 9:31pm
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Don_G wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/389992-indonesia-borneo-kalimantan-palm-oil/

This is what US style capitalism represents best. There's nothing more important than profit.


If you can't +1 this then you probably aren't a libertarian.

Unfortunately we're just going to have to kill the world until all species except humans are extinct and we're buying cans of oxygen to survive.

Think about it. We get air for free, but we are using a valuable resource. Sooner or later the free ride is going to be over.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.
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kunstler
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #2 - May 28th, 2017 at 9:50pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
If you can't +1 this then you probably aren't a libertarian.

Unfortunately we're just going to have to kill the world until all species except humans are extinct and we're buying cans of oxygen to survive.

Think about it. We get air for free, but we are using a valuable resource. Sooner or later the free ride is going to be over.


Interesting. When I lived in NYC, one of the things I began to complain about, was that the city would probably turn the air off at a certain hour every night if such a thing were possible, if not too profit, then to merely feel that they had maximized their ability to control everything.
  
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kunstler
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #3 - May 28th, 2017 at 9:53pm
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Don_G wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/389992-indonesia-borneo-kalimantan-palm-oil/

This is what US style capitalism represents best. There's nothing more important than profit.


You strike me as a kind of British anti-neo-liberalism type who thinks Americans know absolutely nothing about anything and feels superior even while we listen to Subcomandante Marcos speeches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlW9sS7CSAc

What Trump failed to realize, is that Subcomandante Marcos already had the solution to NAFTA and immigration and everything! Stop the forbidden Neoliberalism, stop NAFTA, the unreal globalization, and let the Mayans have their corn land back! All we have to do is put all the business suit wearing yuppies in New York in prison!
  
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kunstler
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #4 - May 28th, 2017 at 10:01pm
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Make the USA HUMAN again rather than GREAT. Having totally lost all touch with humanism, the USA has fallen under the spell of abject capitalism. Bring us back to the 1970s, before fast track trade deals came into effect!

Lets put these people who steal our national sovereignty into prison!  The creators of Trans Pacific Partnership are enemies of the people. The folk people have got to rise up and kill the business suit wearing robots.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #5 - May 29th, 2017 at 11:48am
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Thank you for your comments Kunstler and The Opposition. Let's hope a good discussion can come out of this thread, without Jeff interfering with his spamming.

Can there be any doubt that unlimited greedy capitalism will lead the US to this kind of outcome eventually. Even though it may take 10 or 20 years to get there. With Trump there are no limits of the abuse of the environment you will be seeing.

The other choice is socially responsible capitalism of course but Americans seem to be rejecting that idea, for fear of it meaning communism.
  
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kunstler
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #6 - May 29th, 2017 at 2:06pm
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 11:48am:
Thank you for your comments Kunstler and The Opposition. Let's hope a good discussion can come out of this thread, without Jeff interfering with his spamming.

Can there be any doubt that unlimited greedy capitalism will lead the US to this kind of outcome eventually. Even though it may take 10 or 20 years to get there. With Trump there are no limits of the abuse of the environment you will be seeing.

The other choice is socially responsible capitalism of course but Americans seem to be rejecting that idea, for fear of it meaning communism.


Jes, Jeff is an IMF troll or something. Hell, I myself have voted for the socialist party in the past, and not because I like Russia or want that kind of North Korean walled in state or even "free stuff", but because capitalism in the USA is a contorted lie that only benefits elitism, and the equality they propose betwixt races is actually competition that causes racial conflicts.

In one instance I actually voted for Gloria La Riva of party for Socialism and Liberation, because I felt like she was from way out in New Mexico and not part of the elitism in the northeast. I would literally rather have a Mexican woman as a president than a Democrat!

That was actually my favorite voting experience. I genuinely felt empowered after voting for her, like I'd chosen right for normal people in the greater USA. Voting for Jill Stein doesn't give that energy to you. If you vote La Riva, you feel it afterward, some kind of good energy.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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kunstler wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 2:06pm:
Jes, Jeff is an IMF troll or something. Hell, I myself have voted for the socialist party in the past, and not because I like Russia or want that kind of North Korean walled in state or even "free stuff", but because capitalism in the USA is a contorted lie that only benefits elitism, and the equality they propose betwixt races is actually competition that causes racial conflicts.

In one instance I actually voted for Gloria La Riva of party for Socialism and Liberation, because I felt like she was from way out in New Mexico and not part of the elitism in the northeast. I would literally rather have a Mexican woman as a president than a Democrat!

That was actually my favorite voting experience. I genuinely felt empowered after voting for her, like I'd chosen right for normal people in the greater USA. Voting for Jill Stein doesn't give that energy to you. If you vote La Riva, you feel it afterward, some kind of good energy.


When you say you voted for the socialist party you told me you still don't understand. But that's the American influence working on you.

In Canada we don't vote for any socialist party because none of our parties are socialist. The Conservative party labels everybody but themselves as socialists but they are very wrong on that.

So we need to start thinking in terms of 'socially' responsible capitalism. Neither of your major parties has that to offer so you need to look elsewhere. But so far no alternative exists.

For a hint, it has a lot to do with some of what Trump offered. But he offered lies because he would never help the middle class and the poor to rise up. But also, he awakened the poor and the middle class to accept some of the ideas that are 'social' responsibility in government.

You were snookered by Trump this time but a very dangerous movement has been awakened in the people's heads. Next time maybe, but it's going to be a longshot because you're going to be bombarded with fear of communism and you will be told that you are un-Americans if you don't support the American way.
  
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #8 - May 30th, 2017 at 12:29am
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Don_G wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
You were snookered by Trump this time but a very dangerous movement has been awakened in the people's heads. Next time maybe, but it's going to be a longshot because you're going to be bombarded with fear of communism and you will be told that you are un-Americans if you don't support the American way.
I agree with you (finally!).  We WERE snookered by Trump.  And yes, a movement has been awakened.  Dangerous?   Perhaps.   Perhaps not - I don't pretend to know.

You are right that we will be bombarded with fear of communism and we will be told that we are un-Americans if we don't support the American way. 

The sheeple will succumb to this pressure - as long as they have their smart-phones, their i-pads, and their self-parking BMWs, they'll keep their heads down and walk the circuit.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2017 at 2:33am by SkyChief »  
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Don_G
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Re: Trump is the US hope and the US is next!
Reply #9 - May 30th, 2017 at 2:03pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 12:29am:
I agree with you (finally!).  We WERE snookered by Trump.  And yes, a movement has been awakened.  Dangerous?   Perhaps.   Perhaps not - I don't pretend to know.

You are right that we will be bombarded with fear of communism and we will be told that we are un-Americans if we don't support the American way. 

The sheeple will succumb to this pressure - as long as they have their smart-phones, their i-pads, and their self-parking BMWs, they'll keep their heads down and walk the circuit.


I don't think we ever did disagree on these issues. The only part of what you said I can disagree with perhaps is your last sentence which predicts that it will continue indefinitely. A big part of my point is that Trump caused an awakening in the people and I believe it's going to come back again the next time when some politician makes the same promises.

I will point out here though, that I think we also essentially agree on the degree of interactions Trump and his regime had with the Russians. We'll deal with that on the other thread too.

Fwiw, you are seldom wrong. You only push yourself into being somewhat wrong because of animosity between us. In fairness, I haven't worked at diminishing that very much lately.

Libertarians have their hearts in the right place. It's just that sometimes their ideas need to be honed a little in order to fit with reality. We'll continue to work on it!
  
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