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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Packin Heat! (Read 617 times)
Don_G
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #50 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:02pm
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kunstler wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:53pm:
One argument there is that at that time they had only cap and ball rifles that were time consuming to load. Not sure if you have ever handled an old navy revolver. They definitely weren't cooking bacon on the barrels of machine guns in those days.


It's an excellent point that points out how that 2A is no longer valid.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #51 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:09pm
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merkelstan wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:09am:
The most basic argument for bearing arms is that if you outlaw them, only law-abiding citizens will be disarmed.

The most basic argument for outlawing arms is it makes it easier for people who fly off the handle to do serious damage to others.

If you look at worldwide satistics, you can't draw a correlation between murder rate and permission to bear arms.  This is a function of several things, including poverty levels, culture and quite possibly something else I could be prosecuted for typing.


Here's another twist on it for smart people like you to consider.

Guns enable lawabiding citizens to become criminals. Not only use their guns for revenge against another person. (eg. big black men) Or small petty crime such as destroying other people's property. A murderer with a gun was a law abiding citizen before he got his gun.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #52 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:38pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Here's another twist on it for smart people like you to consider.

Guns enable lawabiding citizens to become criminals. Not only use their guns for revenge against another person. (eg. big black men) Or small petty crime such as destroying other people's property. A murderer with a gun was a law abiding citizen before he got his gun.

Also true of knives, baseball bats, etc.....
  
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Don_G
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #53 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:45pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:38pm:
Also true of knives, baseball bats, etc.....


Yes! True of all instuments that can be used as a weapon to do harm to others.

And now also true that you have conceded my point.

Some exceptions to your rule on  baseball bats and knives could be their lesser effectiveness when challenging a big black guy. They wouldn't be good choices for the cowards.

Guns are by far the best choice for the coward. And 'that' has a lot to do with the reason why many Americans demand their 2A rights to carry their guns.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #54 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 2:08pm
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They are also the best choice for smaller folk.  Bats are a pretty good choice for a coward too.  Knives not so much but still better than fighting someone twice your size with your bare hands. 

Cowards are also afraid of guns which is why a lot of folks demand others not be allowed their second amendment rights.  Not really a valid argument for keeping guns legal any more than such insults are a valid argument for making them illegal though.

  
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ahhell
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #55 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 2:13pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:00pm:
That's probably true but it also might be putting the cart before the horse. For instance, the guns came because they became an instrument that aided criminals. Then the homeowner fell for the false need to protect themselves with guns. Thereby causing the deaths of many more homeowners.

The ideal situation would be far less guns and that's where we can get into the methods that could be employed to make that happen.

Again, correlation does not show causation, in the absence of more evidence my earlier explanation, crime inspires people to protect themselves with guns, is just as or more likely to be true than your suggested causal effect. 

You still haven't shown any evidence that the proposed bill you menitoned in the original post is actually a thing.  Perhaps because there isn't any and your fear of guns got the best of you?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #56 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 2:13pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:09pm:
A murderer with a gun was a law abiding citizen before he got his gun.

Not really.  Just because a murderer doesn't have a gun doesn't make him a law-abiding citizen.  The choice of weapon when commiting a murder is irrelevant. Murder is against the Law whether it is committed with a gun or framing hammer.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #57 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 2:23pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:02pm:
It's an excellent point that points out how that 2A is no longer valid.

You don't seem to understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.  You (and alot of misinformed people like you) think the 2A gives Americans the right to have guns.  The 2A doesn't give rights to anyone.

It only serves to ensure the government does not pass Laws that INFRINGE on these rights.

It was valid then, and it is valid now.  It will always be valid.

You're Canadian, so it's understandable that you don't know the reason we have the Second Amendment in the Bill Of Rights.

The Americans who can't (or wont) acknowledge this are the ones that are a threat to Liberty and Freedom.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #58 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 4:37pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:00pm:
That's probably true but it also might be putting the cart before the horse. For instance, the guns came because they became an instrument that aided criminals.

So, guns are the horse? And criminals needed guns so they could overpower big strong victims, or just kill them and then rob them, safely and easily?

When you say "...the guns came...". Well I'm confused by that... Are you one of those Cargo Cult believers? Or do you mean that guns fell like manna from heaven?

Edit: I got so confused I forgot to ask, are the criminals the cart? So you imagine that guns 'pull' criminals along, sort of leading them to shoot and rob people? Cheesy
  
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ahhell
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Re: Packin Heat!
Reply #59 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 2:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 4:37pm:
Edit: I got so confused I forgot to ask, are the criminals the cart? So you imagine that guns 'pull' criminals along, sort of leading them to shoot and rob people? Cheesy
That made me chuckle, thank you.
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2017 at 5:07pm by ahhell »  
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