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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible (Read 884 times)
kaz
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #10 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:12pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:35pm:
When does that gunman lose his right not to be harmed?


When he threatened me.  Did you read my post?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #11 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:26pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
When he threatened me.  Did you read my post?


Did you read mine? Threats of force are not force any more than my threatening to eat your food causes it to appear in my belly.

Waving Gun = Property Rights

"I will shoot you dead." = Free Speech

You're talking about violating person and property of someone who has done neither.
  

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Jeff
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #12 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
Did you read mine? Threats of force are not force...
Centuries of civilized law says you are wrong in this assertion.
  
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kaz
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #13 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 10:23am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
Did you read mine? Threats of force are not force any more than my threatening to eat your food causes it to appear in my belly.

Waving Gun = Property Rights

"I will shoot you dead." = Free Speech

You're talking about violating person and property of someone who has done neither.


Bull.  I have every right to protect myself, my family, my property from threats.  Go down to the ghetto and aim a gun at a gang banger and see how far your theory takes you
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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The Opposition
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #14 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:01pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 10:23am:
Bull.  I have every right to protect myself, my family, my property from threats.  Go down to the ghetto and aim a gun at a gang banger and see how far your theory takes you


Yes, you'll be dead.

This is my point.
  

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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #15 - Jun 10th, 2017 at 4:37pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:01pm:
Yes, you'll be dead.

This is my point.
I think it's your Mom's point too, but you won't buy her a gun she can use to protect herself.... That's just wrong of you, forcing her to try repeatedly to kill you with a butter knife. Cry
  
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kaz
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #16 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:12am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:01pm:
Yes, you'll be dead.

This is my point.


No, it wasn't, it was my point.  You're trying to be clever, but you're failing, you're just being ineffectively snarky
  

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The Opposition
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #17 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:03pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:12am:
No, it wasn't, it was my point.  You're trying to be clever, but you're failing, you're just being ineffectively snarky


Yes, it was my point, that the NAP when interpreted strictly is non-functional in that it does not preserve those who adhere to it.

Riddle me this: If you think a person threatening you or harming you has voided his rights in some way, why not have the penalty for every crime be death? Why not use cruel and unusual punishment? Why are there laws against?

Speaking in a libertarian sense, once someone has aggressed, if they lose their own rights, why is it still wrong to do certain things to them?

If aggressors retain some rights, but not others, who decides which ones and how? If they retain no rights, is it then perfectly fine to rape them to death in punishment? And if they retain all rights, including freedom, how do you justify punishing them at all, such as putting them into a cell for instance?
  

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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #18 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:11pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:03pm:
Yes, it was my point, that the NAP when interpreted strictly is non-functional in that it does not preserve those who adhere to it.

What an incredibly stupid statement.

Personally deciding not to attack and rob and rape others does not at all inhibit the free exercise of self defense.

Civilized moral people who do not commit acts of aggression against others have every Right to defend themselves and their families and friends and communities.

Guns are often useful when barbarians are in the ascendancy in your area.
  
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kaz
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Re: NAP and Self-Defence Incompatible
Reply #19 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:22pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 4:03pm:
Yes, it was my point, that the NAP when interpreted strictly is non-functional in that it does not preserve those who adhere to it.

Riddle me this: If you think a person threatening you or harming you has voided his rights in some way, why not have the penalty for every crime be death? Why not use cruel and unusual punishment? Why are there laws against?

Speaking in a libertarian sense, once someone has aggressed, if they lose their own rights, why is it still wrong to do certain things to them?

If aggressors retain some rights, but not others, who decides which ones and how? If they retain no rights, is it then perfectly fine to rape them to death in punishment? And if they retain all rights, including freedom, how do you justify punishing them at all, such as putting them into a cell for instance?


I'M NOT AN ANARCHIST
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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