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merkelstan
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The Great Global Warming Swindle
Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:52pm
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Probably the best documentary out there.


9 Minutes.  Just one lie on display.


This is one of many scientists who are blacklisted from publication. He even had his data stolen by his university.  Warning: technical, scientific lecture:


Using a search engine to find climate truth is almost futile nowadays - their results are heavily scrubbed.

One site which has good articles is
https://wattsupwiththat.com/

Download the videos. Share.
  
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kaz
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #1 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:18am
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merkelstan wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:52pm:
The Great Global Warming Swindle )


Liberals don't even believe in global warming.  They just use it as a partisan hack tool to get what they want.  They reject effective solutions like nuclear and natural gas that actually reduce emissions and want things like redistribution of wealth (cap and tax) that have nothing to do with global warming
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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merkelstan
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #2 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am
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kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:18am:
Liberals don't even believe in global warming.  They just use it as a partisan hack tool to get what they want.  They reject effective solutions like nuclear and natural gas that actually reduce emissions and want things like redistribution of wealth (cap and tax) that have nothing to do with global warming


I appreciate your posts and usually agree with them, but I think this one deserves some comment.

1) The liberals (better to call them leftists) with whom I speak are believers, believe me.  They believe hard.

2) Natural gas reduces pollutant emissions vs coal, but the CO2 emissions per watt generated are on the same order of magnitude. They don't oppose natural gas in contradiction to their stated environmental priorites but because of them - they consider CO2 the worst emission of them all.  Nuclear on the other hand is opposed for a) emissions of nuclear waste, the multi-million-year cost of storage of which is not factored-into today's electric prices and b) for risk of catastrophic harm.

3) Cap and tax plans would reduce fossil emissions - if you tax something you get less of it as investment decisions on the margin tip in favor of alternatives.  The exemptions provided to developing nations aren't compensating factors since they would build those plants anyway without the scheme.

Cheers

  
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kaz
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #3 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:53am
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merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
I appreciate your posts and usually agree with them, but I think this one deserves some comment.


Thanks!  And I love comment

merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
1) The liberals (better to call them leftists) with whom I speak are believers, believe me.  They believe hard


Agreed.   "Liberals" are leftists, not liberals.  I tend to use the term "liberals" when speaking of them as a group and "leftist" when I am referring to their ideology.  Ideologically, there is nothing liberal about them at all.  They are authoritarian leftists.  Still, they call themselves liberals, so I use that term in the context of referring to them as a group

merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Natural gas reduces pollutant emissions vs coal, but the CO2 emissions per watt generated are on the same order of magnitude. They don't oppose natural gas in contradiction to their stated environmental priorites but because of them - they consider CO2 the worst emission of them all

Natural Gas reduces emissions in the US by 1/2.  I do consider that an "order of magnitude" reduction.  True as you allude to it is short of their 80% goal.  However, a few notes:

1)  I understand the 50% is a pure natural gas plant.  A combined cycle plant (2 gas turbines, one boiler heated from the exhaust of the 2 gas turbines) would produce 50% more energy with zero emissions.

2)  Those are US stats.  The idea would be to deploy natural gas across the globe where the existing coal plants pollute far more than the US plants do.

3)  My proposal blows the crap out of what the left is doing where they don't even hold two of the three top emissions generators (China and India) to any reduction for the next three decades

merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Nuclear on the other hand is opposed for a) emissions of nuclear waste, the multi-million-year cost of storage of which is not factored-into today's electric prices and b) for risk of catastrophic harm


Exactly my point.  Those are nothing compared to the dire, world ending predictions of the left.  Also, I don't know where you get that storage costs aren't factored, but that's just wrong.  They definitely are and Yucca Mountain is in place.

Just so you know, I was in GE Power and GE Nuclear management as well as other energy industry companies.

merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
3) Cap and tax plans would reduce fossil emissions - if you tax something you get less of it as investment decisions on the margin tip in favor of alternatives.  The exemptions provided to developing nations aren't compensating factors since they would build those plants anyway without the scheme

Well, OK, destroying the economy would reduce energy needs and therefore reduce emissions.  But that doesn't contradict that cap and tax is such a horrible solution that reducing emissions clearly isn't the goal of the left, which is advancing socialism

merkelstan wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Cheers


You as well!
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #4 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 6:07pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:53am:
Agreed.   "Liberals" are leftists, not liberals.  I tend to use the term "liberals" when speaking of them as a group and "leftist" when I am referring to their ideology. 
As the simple minded person I am,  I can't understand that at all.

As a classical liberal, I have to say your 'system' of speaking annoys me.

To me, they are all 'progressives'. They want to run my life and take my stuff under threat of violence.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #5 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 6:09pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:53am:
1)  I understand the 50% is a pure natural gas plant.
That sounds like mindless nonsense to me...

In fact, I'm sure it is. 100% is pure. Nothing less.
  
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merkelstan
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 4:42am
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kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:53am:
Natural Gas reduces emissions in the US by 1/2.  I do consider that an "order of magnitude" reduction. 

This paper confirms your claim that natural gas produces roughly 1/2 the CO2 per watt as does coal.: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/m-rcbg/students/dunlop/2011-Salovaara.pdf
However the definition of "order of magnitude" I learned at university still seems to be correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

Regardless, you're right that the lefties are foolish to oppose a switch to an alternative that produces 1/2 the CO2 (which they believe is baad). On the other hand it doesn't meet their real goal of CO2 neutral and renewable, so while i understand the point you were making, I still think their opposition to NG isn't really ironic, since it falls in line with their real goals.

kaz wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 11:53am:
Exactly my point.  Those are nothing compared to the dire, world ending predictions of the left.  Also, I don't know where you get that storage costs aren't factored, but that's just wrong.  They definitely are and Yucca Mountain is in place.


I may have been grossly misinformed about the amount of time that nuclear waste remains highly radioactive.  If this article is true, waste is only as radioactive as natural uranium after a few hundred years. Can you confirm?  https://www.visionofearth.org/news/does-nuclear-waste-last-millions-of-years/

Yucca Mountain is not an incontroversial storage site: critics claim that earthquakes and geothermal activity could result in contamination. In addition it seems to only have capacity for waste created up to 2010.  What do you think?: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nuclear-waste-lethal-trash-or-renewab...

I'm most interested in your claim that nuclear power companies have paid for storage costs up-front.  Can you provide some documentation for this?  They certainly didn't implement long-term storage solutions for the waste before taking-up operations.

Thanks

  
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merkelstan
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #7 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 4:47am
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Doubling atmospheric CO2 only increases energy reflected back to earth by 1 percent.
  
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merkelstan
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #8 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 10:04am
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kaz
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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
Reply #9 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 10:09am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 6:07pm:
As the simple minded person I am,  I can't understand that at all.

As a classical liberal, I have to say your 'system' of speaking annoys me.

To me, they are all 'progressives'. They want to run my life and take my stuff under threat of violence.


It was pretty straight forward.  If you call them "leftists" all the time, most liberals don't realize you are talking about them because they don't grasp they are leftists
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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