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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold (Read 1961 times)
Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #20 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 7:00pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 10:44am:
There are plenty of such countries around the world.
Indeed, far too many nations have been ruined by the same evil stupidities that have ruined Greece.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #21 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 7:03pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 10:56am:
Since 1971 that system has failed, gold has jumped 30 times in paper terms, and those who understand have profited.
When government arbitrarily eliminates some element of economic liberty, it is not correct to say that "that system has failed".
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #22 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 7:05pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 12:50pm:
In fairness, we aren't asking you to wipe your own ass voluntarily.
You're right, that would never happen.  It would be a "day dream" to try that.  We're trying to remove your choice, forcing you to do it yourself
How barbaric! Forcing people to do for themselves when it's so much more 'progressive' to force others to do it for them... Cheesy
  
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #23 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
How barbaric! Forcing people to do for themselves when it's so much more 'progressive' to force others to do it for them... Cheesy


Jeff, you're back to serial posting messages to yourself. Maybe Kaz is trying to punish you? You need to talk to her.
  
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kaz
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #24 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 11:24am
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Don_G wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:26pm:
Jeff, you're back to serial posting messages to yourself. Maybe Kaz is trying to punish you? You need to talk to her.


Bam!  Now that's what I'm talking about.  I've been calling you gay and a chick for going on about feelings, and what do you come back with?  What I said to you!    Cool

The ultimate way to say when it comes to coming up with your own material, you got nothin ...
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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BobK71
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #25 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:47am
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Don_G wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 12:03am:
Seeing everybody through the eyes of an american is the biggest problem with your prediction of China's system failing. You see corruption and theft everywhere because your country is corrupt and the 1% are thieving from the rest of the people. That's not so in China.


I wish what you say about China was true, in which case the world would have a better model to emulate.

But the way the global imperial system works is to make sure all countries have *more* theft and deception than the center (which is currently the US.)  The reason why money flows to the center in a crisis, and ends up protecting the center, is the common belief that the center is the most open and free society, with the most protection for private property.

Europe compares poorly against the US because of its large and powerful public sector.  Japan compares poorly because its central bank was given so much power (by the temporary US postwar administration!) that it has inflated the biggest financial bubble in the developed world.  The oil-rich countries compare poorly because their governments are not democratic or popularly supported.

One way or another, the empire works to weaken every possible rival or threat.  It is unfortunate and troubling that the vast majority of people don't understand this.  (Even a small country like Syria must be taught a lesson -- what Noam Chomsky calls the 'mafia principle' -- if a minor shopkeeper refuses to pay protection money, the money is not important, but other shopkeepers might get the idea they can defy the mafia.)

A case in point was (just coincidentally!) China in mid-19th century.  China was productive and self-sufficient, used totally sound money (physical silver,) and also quickly came up with the good sense to restrict trade with the West, to protect itself from the effects of financial inflation from the global system, then headed by Britain.

This was a threat to the stability of the system, since China was draining silver (and gold indirectly) from the British system which pretended to back all the paper it issued with gold, because of the trade imbalance.  (The one weakness of China was military.)  Eventually, the way the British balanced the trade was by addicting Chinese with opium.  When China finally cracked down on opium, Britain used some excuse to invade China.  One of the key conditions for peace was that China open itself for free trade.

The rest of the history is pretty similar to most modern countries.  With free trade, there was no way for China to protect itself from the boom and bust cycles of the global system, but to adopt loose money itself.  Under both the Nationalist and Communist regimes, financial inflation (and its effects) has been worse than the West, and the country has been weakened enough not to be a rival or a threat.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #26 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 12:14pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:47am:
I wish what you say about China was true, in which case the world would have a better model to emulate.

But the way the global imperial system works is to make sure all countries have *more* theft and deception than the center (which is currently the US.)  The reason why money flows to the center in a crisis, and ends up protecting the center, is the common belief that the center is the most open and free society, with the most protection for private property.

Europe compares poorly against the US because of its large and powerful public sector.  Japan compares poorly because its central bank was given so much power (by the temporary US postwar administration!) that it has inflated the biggest financial bubble in the developed world.  The oil-rich countries compare poorly because their governments are not democratic or popularly supported.

One way or another, the empire works to weaken every possible rival or threat.  It is unfortunate and troubling that the vast majority of people don't understand this.  (Even a small country like Syria must be taught a lesson -- what Noam Chomsky calls the 'mafia principle' -- if a minor shopkeeper refuses to pay protection money, the money is not important, but other shopkeepers might get the idea they can defy the mafia.)

A case in point was (just coincidentally!) China in mid-19th century.  China was productive and self-sufficient, used totally sound money (physical silver,) and also quickly came up with the good sense to restrict trade with the West, to protect itself from the effects of financial inflation from the global system, then headed by Britain.

This was a threat to the stability of the system, since China was draining silver (and gold indirectly) from the British system which pretended to back all the paper it issued with gold, because of the trade imbalance.  (The one weakness of China was military.)  Eventually, the way the British balanced the trade was by addicting Chinese with opium.  When China finally cracked down on opium, Britain used some excuse to invade China.  One of the key conditions for peace was that China open itself for free trade.

The rest of the history is pretty similar to most modern countries.  With free trade, there was no way for China to protect itself from the boom and bust cycles of the global system, but to adopt loose money itself.  Under both the Nationalist and Communist regimes, financial inflation (and its effects) has been worse than the West, and the country has been weakened enough not to be a rival or a threat.


Quite a post Bob! An exception for this board so it's taken me by surprise and sort of flatfooted. For that reason I'll limit my reply to what I see as the main point and see how you and others respond to that.

In this 21st. century, there isn't going to be any equivalent of the empire (s) induced coma on China through it's supplying of Opium.

We are embarking on an era in which China is big enough and powerful enough to lead one of the two sides of the split that is coming. Roughly stated, it's the BRICS against the West but mainly China and Russia leading the other side. This changes everything! And of course, the concept of MAD to maintain peace on the larger scale.

China a better model? Perhaps not but a force that will be powerful enough to stop US wars of aggression and the march to world domination. I think this has already become evident with Syria and Iran and the US has been stopped. China and Russia have interests they are going to stand up for in the ME.

I hope that's close enough to addressing your well written post. If not then lead it back to where you want to go. It's not often we get an opportunity for a serious discussion on this board.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #27 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 8:37am
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Rikards mentions a potential problem I hadn't thought of...

http://thecrux.com/rickards-bitcoin-vs-gold/
  
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BobK71
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #28 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 8:50am
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Don_G wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 12:14pm:
Quite a post Bob! An exception for this board so it's taken me by surprise and sort of flatfooted. For that reason I'll limit my reply to what I see as the main point and see how you and others respond to that.

In this 21st. century, there isn't going to be any equivalent of the empire (s) induced coma on China through it's supplying of Opium.

We are embarking on an era in which China is big enough and powerful enough to lead one of the two sides of the split that is coming. Roughly stated, it's the BRICS against the West but mainly China and Russia leading the other side. This changes everything! And of course, the concept of MAD to maintain peace on the larger scale.

China a better model? Perhaps not but a force that will be powerful enough to stop US wars of aggression and the march to world domination. I think this has already become evident with Syria and Iran and the US has been stopped. China and Russia have interests they are going to stand up for in the ME.

I hope that's close enough to addressing your well written post. If not then lead it back to where you want to go. It's not often we get an opportunity for a serious discussion on this board.


It is nice, and not often, to find someone with whom you can have a real exchange, thank you.

It's good to see rebellion gather force, but the modern global empire is an alliance between top bankers and a dominant state.  In its 500 year history (which coincides with modern economic progress -- and it's not an accident) it has been thwarted many times, but suffered real defeat only once.  This was during the late Spanish empire when the sovereign debt of the empire simply collapsed.

After that, two major imperial innovations have served it well.  One is the central bank, and the other is consciously passing its power on to a successor, knowing that the current center is destined to fall.  In turn, the successor helped the old center ease into decline.  So the Dutch passed it on to the English (British), who passed it to the Americans.  It's not an accident that Indians are one of the few major populations with a favorable view of the US.  (The imperial ability to issue trusted debt is powerful but also eventually destroys the empire.)

Most people still don't really know why Britain fought World War I.  The objective result of that war was to take Germany out of the global empire business and put the US in it.  It was also clear that the Germans would not be happy to help ease Britain's decline, as the US did.  Here you see more than a little parallel with China and India.

It seems that the empire wants to elevate not the obvious successor, but the next runner-up (as the Netherlands worked with England but not France.)  There is a natural logic here, as the successor is weak enough to need help from the old imperial state to ascend to the global throne.

If this suggests conscious, long-term planning involving a concentrated power center, this center will likely be the top banks.  Since Napoleon complained that French bankers betrayed France, and German bankers likely got Germany into the disastrous First World War, China has to be careful of Chinese bankers at this point.

But, as I wrote earlier, there is a way for ordinary people to play this game, and that is to hold non-state assets.  (See 'the Real Reason to Hold Gold and Bitcoin.')

I hope I have not digressed too much.  I'd like to talk about socially conscious capitalism, that few people on this board seem to want.  People seem to fight battles without discussing the underlying issues -- if the only utility of logic is to save blood, it will be good reason enough!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #29 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:28am
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 8:50am:
I hope I have not digressed too much.  I'd like to talk about socially conscious capitalism, that few people on this board seem to want.
That's about all you do is digress... Cry

I asked you to explain what you meant by "socially responsible capitalism", and now, without ever yet making that clear, you fly off onto "socially conscious capitalism"... Cheesy

But, I'll settle for your explanation of what you think either of them is. Grin

Sorry, it was Donat_G I thought I was addressing. Drat! My mistake... but perhaps you can answer my questions? Thanks.
  
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