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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold (Read 1538 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #30 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 11:37am
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“The IRS could subpoena one of these [cryptocurrency] exchanges and freeze up all the bitcoin  -  the IRS did this with Americans with Swiss bank accounts, they’ll do it with bitcoin.”  - Jim Rickards

I thought Bitcoin was supposed to be immune from these types of government meddling!    Angry
  
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Don_G
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #31 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 12:03pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 8:50am:
It is nice, and not often, to find someone with whom you can have a real exchange, thank you.


Thank 'you'!

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It's good to see rebellion gather force, but the modern global empire is an alliance between top bankers and a dominant state.  In its 500 year history (which coincides with modern economic progress -- and it's not an accident) it has been thwarted many times, but suffered real defeat only once.  This was during the late Spanish empire when the sovereign debt of the empire simply collapsed.


I suspect the rebellion that is gathering force is going to come from many disappointed Americans who supported Trump. Many of whom couldn't continue to vote their more leftist ideologies that had been abandoned by the Dems. It was a complete role reversal as Trump promised leftist change, then of course won't deliver. When Trump is taken down, the anger is going to arise again and boil over. I see a very distinct possibility of a leftist candidate.

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After that, two major imperial innovations have served it well.  One is the central bank, and the other is consciously passing its power on to a successor, knowing that the current center is destined to fall.  In turn, the successor helped the old center ease into decline.  So the Dutch passed it on to the English (British), who passed it to the Americans.  It's not an accident that Indians are one of the few major populations with a favorable view of the US.  (The imperial ability to issue trusted debt is powerful but also eventually destroys the empire.)

Most people still don't really know why Britain fought World War I.  The objective result of that war was to take Germany out of the global empire business and put the US in it.  It was also clear that the Germans would not be happy to help ease Britain's decline, as the US did.  Here you see more than a little parallel with China and India.


World War 1 was fought by the British Commonwealth to preserve empire. I see the parallel with the US, China, and Russia with the US being the empire. However, history can't tell us anything definitively about the MAD nuclear deterrent to war for the future with any certainty. It can only tell us about the past 73 years. The odds are the status quo will continue, even though small wars will continue. I see in the future, all small countries coming under the protection of the nuclear powers as their proxies. Currently Syria and Iran are examples, as well as many US proxy states.

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It seems that the empire wants to elevate not the obvious successor, but the next runner-up (as the Netherlands worked with England but not France.)  There is a natural logic here, as the successor is weak enough to need help from the old imperial state to ascend to the global throne.


The next runner-up? The UK? I don't get your intent on that? I don't see the US giving up the title of empire.

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If this suggests conscious, long-term planning involving a concentrated power center, this center will likely be the top banks.  Since Napoleon complained that French bankers betrayed France, and German bankers likely got Germany into the disastrous First World War, China has to be careful of Chinese bankers at this point.



But, as I wrote earlier, there is a way for ordinary people to play this game, and that is to hold non-state assets.  (See 'the Real Reason to Hold Gold and Bitcoin.') [/quote]

Maybe, but Gold could crash if the US sees it as to their advantage. That would be too much gold in the hands of other countries and not the US. I don't see bitcoin as safe.

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I hope I have not digressed too much.  I'd like to talk about socially conscious capitalism, that few people on this board seem to want.  People seem to fight battles without discussing the underlying issues -- if the only utility of logic is to save blood, it will be good reason enough!


It's interesting nonetheless. I too am interested in talking about socially conscious or responsible capitalism, but less about economics at this point in time. I'm interested in the future of the US as you should have noticed. It's a huge influence on Canada. I believe that the US is close to a change that will be the biggest change in it's entire history. The people have pretty well had enough.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #32 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:38am
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Don_G wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 12:03pm:
... Gold could crash if the US sees it as to their advantage. That would be too much gold in the hands of other countries and not the US. .

Are you suggesting that the US could lower the price of gold at will?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #33 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:19am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 11:37am:
“The IRS could subpoena one of these [cryptocurrency] exchanges and freeze up all the bitcoin  -  the IRS did this with Americans with Swiss bank accounts, they’ll do it with bitcoin.”  - Jim Rickards

I thought Bitcoin was supposed to be immune from these types of government meddling!    Angry
That's what the people selling crypto currencies want you to think.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #34 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:21am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:38am:
Are you suggesting that the US could lower the price of gold at will?
Flooding the market in collusion with other Central Banks would possibly get it down around $35 U.S./ounce...
  
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Don_G
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #35 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:47am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:38am:
Are you suggesting that the US could lower the price of gold at will?


Yes. One reason is that gold is closely linked to oil as well as the USD. The US manipulated oil prices down to about $17 a barrel in order to cause Saddam to move on Kuwait. And of course, the US gave Saddam the greenlight to move on Kuwait. You probably know the whole story too.

However, times have changed somewhat and China now has the leverage in the world's markets to react and reverse US meddling. US blackmail of victim countries isn't as possible anymore.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #36 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 1:07pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:47am:
Yes. One reason is that gold is closely linked to oil as well as the USD.

You're wrong.  There is no country on the globe that can fix the value of gold because all currencies are fiat. 

There are two factors that can never be manipulated with when it comes to precious metals, gemstones, fine art, (and other tangible assets);    1) Supply.     2) Demand.  These are the dtermining factors when it comes to the value of any commodity.

If the US suddenly declared gold to be worth $35/Oz, nobody would sell their gold. Buyers would start offering higher prices until eventually, they offered $1256/Oz.  And then the gold holders would sell.

Gold is not "linked" to Oil.  They are both commodities. The incidental relationship stops there.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #37 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:49pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 11:37am:
“The IRS could subpoena one of these [cryptocurrency] exchanges and freeze up all the bitcoin  -  the IRS did this with Americans with Swiss bank accounts, they’ll do it with bitcoin.”  - Jim Rickards

I thought Bitcoin was supposed to be immune from these types of government meddling!    Angry


Let's just say, in the post-MtGox era, any Bitcoin holder who still leaves a substantial amount of Bitcoin with an exchange (as opposed to a private wallet) deserves to have it stolen by the exchange itself, never mind the government.  It would serve as a valuable life lesson in human nature as manifest by institutions of 'trust.'

Bitcoin was designed from the ground up to avoid this game.  There's no need to play it.

Over any significant time frame, I would only leave a small amount in an exchange for the convenience of transfers to and from bank accounts.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #38 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:53pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:28am:
That's about all you do is digress... Cry

I asked you to explain what you meant by "socially responsible capitalism", and now, without ever yet making that clear, you fly off onto "socially conscious capitalism"... Cheesy

But, I'll settle for your explanation of what you think either of them is. Grin

Sorry, it was Donat_G I thought I was addressing. Drat! My mistake... but perhaps you can answer my questions? Thanks.


I brought it up only to promise to address Don's concerns.  I know what you think, so there's no need to go into that.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Conflict Is the Driving Force behind Bitcoin and Gold
Reply #39 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:57pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:53pm:
I know what you think...
By reading what I say? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  
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