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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Free markets, labor mobility, communities (Read 606 times)
Dissident Right
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Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Jun 8th, 2017 at 3:33pm
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When you are dealing with a land mass as big as the United States, free markets will always be an intractable problem. Free markets–specifically–free INTERSTATE markets—mean many people have to move long distances to get a job. Whereas the smaller and more homogenous the area, the less destructive free markets will be. If we’re honest, even having to move 25 miles will probably end the chances of family interaction beyond the holidays. Once you get to 100 or 200 miles, you’ll lose anything but weddings, funerals, and reunions. Beyond that, connections can be permanently lost.

On the other hand, if your whole family lives within 5 minutes of each other, then you can talk about building a community.

Besides that, another fact is that just as diversity + proximity = war, homogeneity + separation = divergence. Just look at Yankees WASPs and Southerner WASPs. They were all Englishmen. But it didn’t take very many generations for distance, climate, and geography to create a massive divergence that culminated in the Civil War.

All of this conspires to work in favor of the Dark State, the State that seeks to plunder and destroy. On the one hand, isolated, individual transplants have no capacity to resist when the State turns to evil. On the other hand, the divergence created by distance creates its own excuses for cultural and political conflict in which the Dark State thrives. Just as blacks invaded the North and Midwest and brought their unique form of cultural enrichment, so to leftists fled California (and other disasters of their own making) to invade new fresh territories.

Libertarians are always going on about how the People need the capacity to resist the State. Well, yes. Obviously. But the People can’t very well do that when they are nothing more than a random collection of diverse economic units, dynamically cobbled together by free market creative destruction…any more than the People can resist the State without guns.
  

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Dissident Right
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #1 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 8:55pm
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Interesting.
  

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kaz
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #2 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:16pm
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Dissident Right wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 8:55pm:
Interesting.


Apparently people are on to you.  You started insulting me before you had any idea who I was.  Then you declared your sexual prowess that you knew more libertarian than me before you knew snot about me.

I'm just going by my own experience, but I'm guessing others already know what I just learned, you're not interested in debate and you are apparently compensating for something
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #3 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:31pm
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My future mother-in-law moved to Japan.

I am very happy.

This is the mega-ultra-progressive who thinks spanking a kid should land you in jail because the other stuff always works if done properly and refuses to stop calling me "Bad Will Hunting" except during the holidays when she calls me Scrooge because I'm thrifty and she secretly hates herself because she's terrible with money. I give plenty of presents; I just go to lengths not to waste money and she sees fit to tease me about it.

Oh, and I agree by the way. If the community is small enough to create accountability, free market works swimmingly. The free market only fails because of engineered anonymity.
  

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Dissident Right
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 10:31pm:
My future mother-in-law moved to Japan.

Does that mean what I think it means?



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Oh, and I agree by the way. If the community is small enough to create accountability, free market works swimmingly. The free market only fails because of engineered anonymity.

Well, that's a factor. But that's not the sense of failure that I'm talking about. Labor mobility destroys family and social continuity. Libertarians, of course, would say that this economic efficiency is working as intended. And they're right.

The problem is, well, it destroys the continuity of the family and the community.

Which, as usual, cripples the ability of the People to resist the Dark State.

But somehow libertarians think the People will be able to magically overcome this and resist the State anyway, just like the commies thought the People would magically overcome the abolition of the price mechanism and magically produce goods and services in efficient qualities.

In fact, it's literally the same process of rationalization.

Muh Libertarianism! = people transplanted and jumbled up by labor mobility can still resist the State

Muh Communism! = people can produce in proper quantities without a price mechanism

Sad!

Here's a cute Asian chick to cheer you up. I understand that libertarians love Asians.

  

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merkelstan
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 5:04am
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Dissident Right wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:37am:
Labor mobility destroys family and social continuity. Libertarians, of course, would say that this economic efficiency is working as intended. And they're right.

The problem is, well, it destroys the continuity of the family and the community.

Which, as usual, cripples the ability of the People to resist the Dark State.

But somehow libertarians think the People will be able to magically overcome this and resist the State anyway, just like the commies thought the People would magically overcome the abolition of the price mechanism and magically produce goods and services in efficient qualities.


Mobility is a feature of modern life brought about by technology and cheap energy. Are you avocating that we somehow eliminate that?

Extended family networks are really nice to have (I remember family meals with around 30 members) but I don't know how those served to 'resist the state'.  Could you come up with some historical examples?

The state does assimilate organic social institutions like Mutual Aid Societies and charities and churches - but those social networks can be joined wherever people move-to.  Yes, if people move too frequently even those cannot be sustained as well, but this isn't an argument against mobility per se.
  

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Dissident Right
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:17pm
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merkelstan wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 5:04am:
Mobility is a feature of modern life brought about by technology and cheap energy. Are you avocating that we somehow eliminate that?

I’m not advocating anything. I’m certainly not against mobility in and of itself. What I’m talking about, specifically, is labor mobility, which refers to how many people have to move to get jobs–which means they move and then stay.

This is a natural consequence of free markets.

The problem that we observe with this is it cuts people off from their most basic human connections: their family.

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Extended family networks are really nice to have (I remember family meals with around 30 members) but I don't know how those served to 'resist the state'.  Could you come up with some historical examples?

Sure, the two most obvious examples are the American Revolution and the Civil War. Another example would be the Italian Mob in America, or any crime family. In those wars, labor mobility was very low. For example you would have entire towns being drafted into combat units. Guerrilla warfare in the American revolution was conducted similarly, by locals.

The Federal Government is vastly more oppressive today than it was in the Civil War, and infinitely more oppressive than the British Empire. But there has been no armed resistance. Why? Well, resisting the State requires two things to start with. It requires a lot of people, and it requires that those people trust each other, since the act of resisting the State is illegal.

Armed resistance is the last resort, of course. And I’m not necessarily suggesting that if the Constitution had never instituted free interstate markets, that the expansion of Federal power would have been stopped (by force if necessary). I’m simply pointing out that the building of a genuine community with genuine trust is a necessary first step. And until that step is taken, no armed resistance is even possible.

Consider it theoretically.

Imagine a town with an occupation government: mayor, councilmen, judge, sheriff, deputies, et cetera, all installed by a xeno power. If the town is populated by 10,000 people who all know each other have strong blood relations, they already have the trust and social infrastructure with which to mount a revolution and win, if they so choose, since the occupation government and its forces are insignificant when compared to the combined forces of the population.

But if the town is populated by 10,000 unrelated, transplanted economic units, it will be much easier for the occupation government to stay in power, because before the people can even think about revolution, they have to form bonds of trust. And that’s really difficult when they can’t trust anyone in the first place to not betray them to the government.

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The state does assimilate organic social institutions like Mutual Aid Societies and charities and churches - but those social networks can be joined wherever people move-to.  Yes, if people move too frequently even those cannot be sustained as well, but this isn't an argument against mobility per se.

That’s true, but nothing else even comes close to the strength the social network known as the family.

My point, more or less, is that if you wanted to create a totalitarian state (as the SJWs, globalists, and leftists want to do), using free markets to naturally break up families would be a great way lay the groundwork.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #7 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 5:41pm
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Dissident Right wrote on Jun 8th, 2017 at 3:33pm:
When you are dealing with a land mass as big as the United States, free markets will always be an intractable problem.
????

It is the 21st Century here in America moron.

Finding what you want/need to buy and having it appear on your porch in a day or two has never ever been even close to this easy.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #8 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 5:42pm
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Dissident Right wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:37am:
Here's a cute Asian chick to cheer you up. I understand that libertarians love Asians.
I'm convinced at this point that you don't really understand anything about anybody.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Free markets, labor mobility, communities
Reply #9 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 11:00pm
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Dissident Right wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:37am:
Does that mean what I think it means?


No. She's fat as a house and as American (by blood) as you are. She's moving to Japan because honestly I put it into her head to move. I just used her spirit animal stuff in a way I don't usually use things. I just can't have her around my kid if I have one.

Also, holy plastic boobs Batman! Riddle me this: If you think those are real, you lose.

Dissident Right wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 12:37am:
Well, that's a factor. But that's not the sense of failure that I'm talking about. Labor mobility destroys family and social continuity. Libertarians, of course, would say that this economic efficiency is working as intended. And they're right.

The problem is, well, it destroys the continuity of the family and the community.

Which, as usual, cripples the ability of the People to resist the Dark State.

But somehow libertarians think the People will be able to magically overcome this and resist the State anyway, just like the commies thought the People would magically overcome the abolition of the price mechanism and magically produce goods and services in efficient qualities.

In fact, it's literally the same process of rationalization.

Muh Libertarianism! = people transplanted and jumbled up by labor mobility can still resist the State

Muh Communism! = people can produce in proper quantities without a price mechanism

Sad!


Every political philosophy is built on a hefty helping of optimism about the People.

My favourite is that libertarians assume the free market corrects against scammers, which requires the consumer to be smarter than the scammer, and if he was, well... he'd be scamming the other guy.

Only small communities and the accountability they come with correct for scammers because they'll eventually be ostracized, and everyone knows who the ostriches are. Yes, my point, not yours, but they share a common thread: Peoples' blind optimism.
  

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