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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ... (Read 688 times)
Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #20 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:30pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
Because you continually make up ridiculous shit I never said and you have never addressed the OP post.  Clear enough for you, grandpa?
Please refer to my reply #1 regarding your original feeble minded post girly boy.
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #21 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:32pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
Please refer to my reply #1 regarding your original feeble minded post girly boy.


Yes, a flashback.  That was the post you began hallucinating
  

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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #22 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:46pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 2:55pm:
... and not un-coincidentally the worst.

Honorable Mentions - LBJ (making war an economic policy), Teddy Roosevelt (the first big government liberal), Buchannan (policies led directly to Civil War), HW (war on terror), Obama (making every American a dependent of government for their healthcare)

3)  Woodrow Wilson - For setting us on the path of being the policeman to the world with the Treaty of Paris (1920)

2)  FDR - For many reasons, the biggest being for eliminating State rights

1)  Lincoln - Our country was founded on consent of the governed.  Lincoln ended the legitimacy of government by forcing States to remain in the Union who do not consent to be governed by the US Federal government


Obama, the one who came the closest to bringing the US up to speed with the rest of the civilized world on health care.
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #23 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:24pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:46pm:
Obama, the one who came the closest to bringing the US up to speed with the rest of the civilized world on health care.


Which of course is why medical facilities in the US northern border are filled with ... Canadians ...

  

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Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #24 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:21am
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:00am:
So in your mind, Jeff, did your post address my point on "consent of the governed?"  Our country was based on that principle.  Is it important?  How do we say "We The People" when people are forced to be in the Union?  That really means the Constitution is from "We Some of the People, The Ones With The Most Guns"

Consent of the governed is far more than "State rights." 
There were more black people held as slaves in South Carolina than there were white 'citizens'.

No proper conversation about the consent of the governed can start by ignoring the fact that slaves gave no consent to be governed by masters. And yes, the masters had guns and the slaves were prohibited from having guns.
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #25 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 10:15am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:21am:
There were more black people held as slaves in South Carolina than there were white 'citizens'.

No proper conversation about the consent of the governed can start by ignoring the fact that slaves gave no consent to be governed by masters. And yes, the masters had guns and the slaves were prohibited from having guns.


I never said we can ignore slaves.  I said I'm not going to address a subject where you tell me my position instead of asking me my position.

Also, no proper conversation about the consent of the governed can start by ignoring consent of the governed, as you are doing.  So far slaves are all you're willing to discuss.

I didn't even make my point only about the Civil War, I made it from the Civil War to today.  You're saying that we can be slaves of the government because "slaves."  It's a brain dead discussion you're engaging in.  You're cutting off any meaningful discourse because you're taking the position everyone else does, slavery is wrong.  There is no insight there, Jeff.

Here would be a lucid response you could have made.  "I see your point, kaz, yes, the elimination of the consent of the governed is required for a free country and a big issue on why we no longer live in a free country.  Of course slavery is an issue too.  What would you have done about that?

What you went with was consent of the governed is about slavery in the 1860s.

Lucid is neither in your vocabulary nor your tool belt, Jeff.  I love ya though man, you're a good guy even if you can't follow points in a discussion

  

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Don_G
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #26 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm
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You southerners lost the civil war so get over it.

And NO, you can't have your slaves back. Instead, you have to start considering black people as American citizens and your equals.

Isn't it ironic that many who claim to be libertarians are unable to accept black people into their society! This could be why the greatest presidents weren't libertarians in any way.
  
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ahhell
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #27 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:26pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm:
Isn't it ironic that many who claim to be libertarians are unable to accept black people into their society!
Why yes it is, its also ironic that many progressives were super racist too and that many of the most eloquent writers of liberty were slave owners. Don_G wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm:
This could be why the greatest presidents weren't libertarians in any way.
Nonsense, most folks like a strongman to tell them what to do, that doesn't make the strongman great it just makes the folks that rate him so, fools and suckers.

FDR was a terrible president.  His economic policies were often at odds with one another and his administration almost certainly prolonged the depression.  He trampled over constitutional and political norms which led us to Donald Trump having the power of the imperial presidency.  But he made people feel good while they starved so he was great.  Actually, a lot of folks say he was great because he trampled over the constitution. 


You're right about the Southerners(the confederate flag wavers anyway) though.  Lots of Southerners have gotten over it to sure.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #28 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:36pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:26pm:
Why yes it is, its also ironic that many progressives were super racist too and that many of the most eloquent writers of liberty were slave owners.


Yes! it's so true that racism ran right to the core of American society. It didn't choose one political ideology more than any other. But a more leftist society in Canada seemed to be able to mostly avoid it and move on from it. The US never has because the south can't get over losing the civil war.

Nonsense, most folks like a strongman to tell them what to do, that doesn't make the strongman great it just makes the folks that rate him so, fools and suckers.

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FDR was a terrible president.  His economic policies were often at odds with one another and his administration almost certainly prolonged the depression.  He trampled over constitutional and political norms which led us to Donald Trump having the power of the imperial presidency.  But he made people feel good while they starved so he was great.  Actually, a lot of folks say he was great because he trampled over the constitution. 


As you suggest, a lot of people consider FDR to be great.


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You're right about the Southerners(the confederate flag wavers anyway) though.  Lots of Southerners have gotten over it to sure. 


It's silly to deny the problem of the south and to suggest that lots have gotten over their racism is not conducive to rising above the problem.

In any case, a move to the left is what is needed now. And as I have said, Trump promised that and it grabbed the attention of the masses, even though the Democrats tried to be the cause that Trump was championing.

If only Trump hadn't lied about it all!
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #29 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 1:00pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm:
You southerners lost the civil war so get over it.

And NO, you can't have your slaves back. Instead, you have to start considering black people as American citizens and your equals.

Isn't it ironic that many who claim to be libertarians are unable to accept black people into their society! This could be why the greatest presidents weren't libertarians in any way.


Ah, so you're a racist.  Why do you hate blacks?  I mean sitting at your table instead of serving you dinner
  

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