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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ... (Read 1667 times)
kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #40 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:30pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:20pm:
I think you'd see my intellect showing in my other posts too if you'd give me a chance. Also, I'll stop being hostile.


Cool!  And I was always giving you a chance.  When you said something I agreed with, I immediately said so.

As you self admitted, you were being hostile, there wasn't much to agree with before.  I look forward to a more substantiation discussion
  

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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #41 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:31pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 5:35pm:
I thought this is what you wanted to talk about? Now you won't? Later you'll say you did... Then you'll claim I never responded to your post in the first place? Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy

I've heard that shit before. Tongue


You thought I wanted to talk about slavery instead of consent of the governed before? Undecided

Did you hit your head on something?


  

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Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #42 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:15am
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kaz wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
You thought I wanted to talk about slavery instead of consent of the governed before? Undecided

Did you hit your head on something?



You related "consent of the governed" to the right of state governments to leave the union so as to continue protecting slavery in their states, so I pointed out that the slaves (who were individual people, as in We the People) had not consented to be governed as slaves.

You argue that state governments have no obligation to respect the rights of people living within their territory, may in fact use the power of law to maintain them in a state of slavery, and have a "right" to leave the union in order to preserve the "legal" power to protect human slavery.

No government is legitimate that uses the power of law to protect the institution of human slavery. Consent of state governments to be subject to the limitations of the Constitution is not in fact what "consent of the governed" actually means. State governments are not "governed" by the national government, but they are prohibited by the Constitution from running roughshod over the rights of people in their states.

http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aas-hius366a/lincoln.html
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #43 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:18am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:15am:
You related "consent of the governed" to the right of state governments to leave the union so as to continue protecting slavery in their states


Yeah, Jeff, I support slavery.  Your kids need to pull the plug, stupid douche bag
  

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Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #44 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:24am
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kaz wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:18am:
crappity smack you and the fart that blew you in, Jeff.  Yeah you crappity smacking moron, I said I supported slavery.  Did I say crappity smack you, you stupid lying douche bag?

You said this in order to claim that Lincoln was one of the all time least libertarian Presidents-

"1)  Lincoln - Our country was founded on consent of the governed.  Lincoln ended the legitimacy of government by forcing States to remain in the Union who do not consent to be governed by the US Federal government "

You are simply wrong on every level with that contention. most of the people in South Carolina at the time of the War to End Slavery in America were being governed as slaves, a condition to which they had not consented and which you seem to think should have been permitted to continue on the grounds that the slave state governments gave no consent to continue to be bound by the Constitution.

No government is legitimate that uses its power to hold people in slavery.
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #45 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:28am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:24am:
You said this in order to claim that Lincoln was one of the all time least libertarian Presidents-

"1)  Lincoln - Our country was founded on consent of the governed.  Lincoln ended the legitimacy of government by forcing States to remain in the Union who do not consent to be governed by the US Federal government "

You are simply wrong on every level with that contention. most of the people in South Carolina at the time of the War to End Slavery in America were being governed as slaves, a condition to which they had not consented and which you seem to think should have been permitted to continue on the grounds that the slave state governments gave no consent to continue to be bound by the Constitution.

No government is legitimate that uses its power to hold people in slavery.


Where in that do I support slavery, shit head?  I'm done with you
  

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Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #46 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:35am
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kaz wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:28am:
Where in that do I support slavery, shit head?  I'm done with you
You say the slaves states had a legitimate right to leave the union in order to continue the institution of slavery within their states. That's what they wanted to do. Even worse, they demanded that new slave states be admitted to the union in proportion to  new free states, so that they could maintain their effective veto in the national government against ever abolishing slavery in America.

The majority of the American people were not agreeable to extending human slavery in America, rather, they wanted to abolish it. That is a very libertarian goal, and Lincoln shared it.
  
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kaz
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #47 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:37am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:35am:
You say the slaves states had a legitimate right to leave the union in order to continue the institution of slavery within their states. That's what they wanted to do. Even worse, they demanded that new slave states be admitted to the union in proportion to  new free states, so that they could maintain their effective veto in the national government against ever abolishing slavery in America.

The majority of the American people were not agreeable to extending human slavery in America, rather, they wanted to abolish it. That is a very libertarian goal, and Lincoln shared it.


You're a liar, I never said that.  crappity smack off, dick head
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #48 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 9:14am
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kaz wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:37am:
You're a liar, I never said that.  crappity smack off, dick head

A rational person would correct my error in attributing a wrong meaning to their words...

You simply stand by your assertion that Lincoln was a tyrant because he (illegitimately) led the American people to force the slave state governments to remain in the union and stop enslaving people because those governments had supposedly not given their "consent"?

Those state governments did in fact consent to follow the Constitution... but they could see the handwriting on the wall, the Constitution was going to be amended to abolish institutional slavery as soon as a few more free states were admitted to the union.  Smiley

So, in order to continue enforcing the governing of un-consenting people as slaves, those slave states left the union and the confines of the constitutional government they had agreed to abide by.
  
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Re: The three most un-libertarian Presidents in history ...
Reply #49 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 12:36pm
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Americans still fighting their civil war.  It's quite remarkable that the racist hate for Obama could revive this kind of nonsense. The US was definitely not ready for a black president. The backlash will continue on for years in the US south.

Bedsheets and pointy hats that have been moldering in the closets in the south are back on the streets.

Jeff and Kaz will demonstrate for us how the hate has been revived! This nonsense was practically a dead topic before Obama. Now half of Americans are completely obsessed with the hating it's brought out.
  
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