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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Consent of the Governed Important? (Read 1454 times)
kaz
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Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:46am
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I argued in a broader discussion the importance of "consent of the governed" and couldn't get anyone to directly address it.

Is consent of the governed important to government?  I can think of nothing more critical or libertarian than view that consent of the governed is THE founding principle of a government of the people.  How could it not be?  How can a government be of the people when the people are compelled to be ruled by that government?

Consent of the Governed:  "A condition urged by many as a requirement for legitimate government "

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/consent-of-the-governed

So how is a government that compels it's people to remain in the Union by force, as we did in the civil war legitimate?

And think about how government is moving Unconstitutionally to making us a Democracy ruled by California, New York and Illinois leverages that to oppress the rest of us with the tyranny of the majority?

Would they treat red States that way if they didn't know we are not allowed to leave?
  

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Don_G
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #1 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:21pm
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Just more libertarians hocus-pocus and nonsense. Maybe that's why nobody wants to argue it with you.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #2 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
Just more libertarians hocus-pocus and nonsense. Maybe that's why nobody wants to argue it with you.


Thank you for posting you have nothing regarding my OP.  As if that was in doubt ...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #3 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:21pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:46am:
So how is a government that compels it's people to remain in the Union by force, as we did in the civil war legitimate?

Duh...

That's what the majority of people wanted to do, realize the ideals of the Declaration and the Constitution.

Humans as slaves was not part of those ideas or ideals.

What actually happened was that human slavery was finally outlawed in America, after huge sacrifices.

Not only were new slave states prohibited forever, but current state governments that sanctioned human slavery in America were told specifically by the Constitution that the incredibly evil institution they called their "right"  was fundamentally illegal in the U.S. Smiley

Thinking people already knew that human slavery was grossly immoral. That's why they were willing to fight to end it in America.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #4 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:21pm:
Duh...

That's what the majority of people wanted to do, realize the ideals of the Declaration and the Constitution.


I see, so since the majority of the Soviet Union was Russian, it was OK to ignore that the Baltics didn't consent and enslave them because even though the Baltics wanted to leave, Russians get to vote on Baltic secession too?

What a load of crap, and I can't believe you believe that.  Northerners don't get to vote that Southerners want to stay in the Union

Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:21pm:
Humans as slaves was not part of those ideas or ideals.

What actually happened was that human slavery was finally outlawed in America, after huge sacrifices.

Not only were new slave states prohibited forever, but current state governments that sanctioned human slavery in America were told specifically by the Constitution that the incredibly evil institution they called their "right"  was fundamentally illegal in the U.S. Smiley

Thinking people already knew that human slavery was grossly immoral. That's why they were willing to fight to end it in America.


It's funny how you keep lecturing me on slavery and you still haven't realized you're making up all my positions.  I'll discuss it with you, but I never explain my views when people tell me what they are instead of asking me.

So seriously Jeff, in your mind, Consent of the Governed = Slavery.  You view them as the same subject?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #5 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:15pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
I see, so since the majority of the Soviet Union was Russian, it was OK to ignore that the Baltics didn't consent and enslave them...
The Soviets were Communists. They virtually enslaved the Baltic Nations for a long time. Other peoples too. Including Russians. That's part of Communist dogma. It's just how it "works".
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #6 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:21pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
Just more libertarians hocus-pocus and nonsense. Maybe that's why nobody wants to argue it with you.


I do. I feel that with consent of the governed, you could theoretically have a perfectly libertarian system and a government - the best of both worlds.

This is because you're not using force when making laws. The People agree to the laws - every last one of them does.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:47pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
I do. I feel that with consent of the governed, you could theoretically have a perfectly libertarian system and a government - the best of both worlds.

This is because you're not using force when making laws. The People agree to the laws - every last one of them does.
I'm becoming skeptical that anyone ever in fact told you you were a genius...

At this point, I imagine that anyone who told you were a genius when you were eleven years old was an idiot 'progressive' hack who knew nothing. Cry
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #8 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:32pm
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So none of you are able to address the point whether the "consent of the governed" is important?

I guess that answers my question.  From the Marxist (Donnie Baby) to the liberal (Oppressive) to the classic liberal (Jeff), it isn't.  That's very sad for you all.  Seriously.

That's why the world is so messed up.  Even Jeff has bellied up to that the individual doesn't matter, only tyranny of the majority does.  He thinks the North can veto secession in 1860 and apparently Kalifornia, New York and Illinois can veto our freedom today
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:38pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:32pm:
So none of you are able to address the point whether the "consent of the governed" is important?

I did.
  
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