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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Consent of the Governed Important? (Read 2058 times)
Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:42pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:32pm:
Even Jeff has bellied up to that the individual doesn't matter...
Piss off child. If you misrepresent my beliefs to this extent to my face, if you are brave enough, there is a good likelihood I'll kill you on the spot. With good reason. I can support it with the sacred NAP.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:38pm:
I did.


No, you kept babbling about slavery, which I haven't addressed because you don't have the balls to engage me in a real conversation where you ask me what my views are rather than telling me what they are.

Every time I talk about the subject, consent of the governed, you revert to the 1850s
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #12 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:52pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:47pm:
No, you kept babbling about slavery, which I haven't addressed because you don't have the balls to engage me in a real conversation where you ask me what my views are rather than telling me what they are.

You said I believe that individuals such as myself are not important. At this point in my life in the 21st Century, if you are willing to tell me in person that I don't matter because I'm just an individual, I will kill you outright and on the spot. Cool
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #13 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:52pm:
You said I believe that individuals such as myself are not important. At this point in my life in the 21st Century, if you are willing to tell me in person that I don't matter because I'm just an individual, I will kill you outright and on the spot. Cool


Not sure if you're on meds or drunk off your donkey, but whatever
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #14 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:25pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:13pm:
Not sure if you're on meds or drunk off your donkey, but whatever
None of the above. If you are willing to face me in person and tell me that I don't matter as an individual, I will kill you right then and there. Why shouldn't I? Because you are somehow a more important individual than I am? Can you explain that?
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #15 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:32pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
None of the above. If you are willing to face me in person and tell me that I don't matter as an individual, I will kill you right then and there. Why shouldn't I? Because you are somehow a more important individual than I am? Can you explain that?


Strawman.  Stop pretending to take the meds, the nurse is only trying to help you
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Don_G
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #16 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:51pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
I do. I feel that with consent of the governed, you could theoretically have a perfectly libertarian system and a government - the best of both worlds.

This is because you're not using force when making laws. The People agree to the laws - every last one of them does.


You're living in a fantasy world if you think all the people will agree with all laws as right and just. Libertarians, to begin with, don't agree with any laws. Or at least they think they don't.
  
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kaz
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #17 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:25pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:51pm:
You're living in a fantasy world if you think all the people will agree with all laws as right and just. Libertarians, to begin with, don't agree with any laws. Or at least they think they don't.


Strawman
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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merkelstan
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #18 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 3:40am
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:46am:
I argued in a broader discussion the importance of "consent of the governed" and couldn't get anyone to directly address it.

Is consent of the governed important to government?  I can think of nothing more critical or libertarian than view that consent of the governed is THE founding principle of a government of the people.  How could it not be?  How can a government be of the people when the people are compelled to be ruled by that government?

Consent of the Governed:  "A condition urged by many as a requirement for legitimate government "

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/consent-of-the-governed

So how is a government that compels it's people to remain in the Union by force, as we did in the civil war legitimate?

And think about how government is moving Unconstitutionally to making us a Democracy ruled by California, New York and Illinois leverages that to oppress the rest of us with the tyranny of the majority?

Would they treat red States that way if they didn't know we are not allowed to leave?


The war of secession put to rest the idea that the US states were in a voluntary union.  Even the league of nations and UN acknowledged the right to secede.

But that issue is one of states' consent.  How does it look with individual consent?  You did not address this.

What do you think about "implied consent" theory?  "Social contract"?
https://mises.org/library/consent-governed

Have you read Lysander Spooner?
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36145

  
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Jeff
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Re: Is Consent of the Governed Important?
Reply #19 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:12am
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kaz wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 7:47pm:
No, you kept babbling about slavery, which I haven't addressed because you don't have the balls to engage me in a real conversation where you ask me what my views are rather than telling me what they are.

Every time I talk about the subject, consent of the governed, you revert to the 1850s

Your original post refers to the Civil War and asks how a national government that refuses to allow states to leave the union can be legitimate.

My reply is that the national government is obligated to protect individual liberty and must act against state governments that infringe or deny the individual rights of people in those states.

Consent of the governed is important, but the consent of every single individual is not. To be governed by law is what I assume you mean?
  
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