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kaz
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Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:27pm
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In the real world, you eliminate government, then the liberals and others who can't take care of themselves are controlled by despots and become their armies.  Then good men need to band together and organize to defeat them.  Then we have government again.

Anarchy is like the big bang, an event which occurs only for an instant too small to measure.

Anarchists don't maximize liberty.  I am a libertarian to minimize government to maximize my liberty.  When making government smaller reduces my liberty, it is as small as possible.

Another way to look at it is that government is the worst solution to any problem.  So when is the worst solution the best solution?  When it's the only solution.  Some examples.  There can be only one:

1)  Military
2)  Police force
3)  Civil and criminal courts
4)  Arbiter of property rights
5)  Manager of limited resources (water, airwaves, ...)
6)  Builder of roads

In any of those cases, two entities trying to do the same thing will lead to nothing but conflict and chaos.  Anarchists are idiots who think they live on Little House on the Prairie in the old west where everyone is decent and gets along.  Maybe anarchists want to sit in a tower with a gun day and night to protect their property and never travel beyond the edge of their town, but I don't
  

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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
In the real world, you eliminate government, then the liberals and others who can't take care of themselves are controlled by despots and become their armies.  Then good men need to band together and organize to defeat them.  Then we have government again.

Anarchy is like the big bang, an event which occurs only for an instant too small to measure.

Anarchists don't maximize liberty.  I am a libertarian to minimize government to maximize my liberty.  When making government smaller reduces my liberty, it is as small as possible.

Another way to look at it is that government is the worst solution to any problem.  So when is the worst solution the best solution?  When it's the only solution.  Some examples.  There can be only one:

1)  Military
2)  Police force
3)  Civil and criminal courts
4)  Arbiter of property rights
5)  Manager of limited resources (water, airwaves, ...)
6)  Builder of roads

In any of those cases, two entities trying to do the same thing will lead to nothing but conflict and chaos.  Anarchists are idiots who think they live on Little House on the Prairie in the old west where everyone is decent and gets along.  Maybe anarchists want to sit in a tower with a gun day and night to protect their property and never travel beyond the edge of their town, but I don't


A couple of other possibilities for government.

7. universal health care. It fits your description perfectly as in there can't be competition between two profiteers.

8. British Columbia's Autoplan, run by the provincial government deserves mention, even though private enterprise is allowed to compete. Greedy capitalists pay more by supporting the privates, just to spite.

Great topic! We'll make it mostly about US health care fuc-ups!
  
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:41pm
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Oh, and a correction to #2.

Most countries have more than one police force and in most cases they're working in the exact same jurisdiction. The federal government ones are the least corrupt and the elected ones are completely corrupted.
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:55pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
A couple of other possibilities for government.

7. universal health care. It fits your description perfectly as in there can't be competition between two profiteers.

8. British Columbia's Autoplan, run by the provincial government deserves mention, even though private enterprise is allowed to compete. Greedy capitalists pay more by supporting the privates, just to spite.

Great topic! We'll make it mostly about US health care fuc-ups!

You're full of shit.   Government is the only way to provide healthcare?  The only applicability to my post with healthcare is that government is the worst solution
  

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kaz
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:57pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
Oh, and a correction to #2.

Most countries have more than one police force and in most cases they're working in the exact same jurisdiction. The federal government ones are the least corrupt and the elected ones are completely corrupted.


I'm not debating libertarian versus anarchy with a Marxist, and this post is a perfect example why.  It's just stupid.  Your example is obviously not what I was talking about.  They are coordinated and they have hierarchy and they go to the same courts.  That investigations can overlap is obviously not the point
  

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him - Groucho Marx

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way - Mark Twain
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #5 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:03pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:55pm:
You're full of shit.   Government is the only way to provide healthcare?  The only applicability to my post with healthcare is that government is the worst solution


Well kaz, the facts sort of speak for themselves don't they.

Yes, I know that you have faith that free enterprise is going to come through for your country and it's people!

And maybe it will?

When hell freezes over is my guess. Sooner? You're the perfect patsy, hanging around for anybody to use as our whipping board! LOL
  
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #6 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:06pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:57pm:
I'm not debating libertarian versus anarchy with a Marxist, and this post is a perfect example why.  It's just stupid.  Your example is obviously not what I was talking about.  They are coordinated and they have hierarchy and they go to the same courts.  That investigations can overlap is obviously not the point


You're talking about what "I" want to talk about and so will everybody else on this thread you have created.

Right now we're going to use the health care example but we can switch to other examples any time.
  
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Crystallas
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #7 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:32pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
A couple of other possibilities for government.

7. universal health care. It fits your description perfectly as in there can't be competition between two profiteers.


Government should provide everyone with food. Universal Food Care.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #8 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:42pm
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Crystallas wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:32pm:
Government should provide everyone with food. Universal Food Care.


Yes! so we'll make"

#9 Food.

With an explanation please. And then we can make #10 housing and #11 clothing.

Both with explanations. This is pretty basic stuff because it's about the essentials of living.
  
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Crystallas
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #9 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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Do you think we can write a law that eliminates waiting and bread lines?

#12. No lines and service must be great.
  
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