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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anarchists are only a theoretical model (Read 1333 times)
Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #10 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:55pm
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Crystallas wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:48pm:
Do you think we can write a law that eliminates waiting and bread lines?

#12. No lines and service must be great.


No. The ideal would be to have no bread lines and no hungry people who need them. But there are some, intermingled with those few who only want the free ride.

I firmly believe that there are many reasons that people stand in bread lines and many reasons why they can't support themselves. Those reasons are accountable to both mental and physical disabilities.

I can almost exclusively discount the idea of malingers. Almost all people who depend on charity have reasons. Or maybe I should just say 'all' because I can't think of any that don't. Maybe you can?

The task is to teach some of them that they can earn a living, or in many cases help to heal them so they can.

This is perhaps the point at which the libertarian and the liberal can begin to see things in common. I'll leave it up to you now.
  
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kaz
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #11 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:18pm
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Crystallas wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:32pm:
Government should provide everyone with food. Universal Food Care.


I want government to tuck me in at night.  Universal tucking in care
  

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Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #12 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:19pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:55pm:
No. The ideal would be to have no bread lines and no hungry people who need them


That was the plan in Venezuela too.  How'd that work out for you, comrade?
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #13 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:57pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
I want government to tuck me in at night.  Universal tucking in care
We already have that if you qualify...  somebody else is paid by somebody else to change your diaper and clean you first, then I'm sure they will probably sing you to sleep.

There are all sorts of subsidies from all sorts of Federal Departments administered by bureaucrats who make "rules" that are then ruled to be "law"... so we simply have to pay taxes to support them...

That seems to be the consistent TwoParty message for most of my adult lifetime. Cry

I think there is a .gov website dedicated to helping you figure out which redistributions you qualify for...

It has something to do with Justice? Roll Eyes
  
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #14 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 4:08pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:55pm:
No. The ideal would be to have no bread lines and no hungry people who need them. But there are some, intermingled with those few who only want the free ride.
People with jobs have time to stand in breadlines?

In case you haven't noticed, increases in economic liberty around the world for a long time now have made abject poverty, historically speaking, non-existent.

Crony capitalism, even if the Official Communist Party is still in charge, provides more liberty than Marxist constructions, therefore it generates more wealth...
But if the generated wealth goes only to the Sovereign and the Sovereign's cronies, historically speaking, you get violent revolutions. There are many examples from history. Far too many. Virtually every violent revolution in history led to something worse.

It was Wilson's dream to stop such things with a "League of Nations" that was actually a proposal for a league of 'progressive' governments.

Later, the U.N. was sold as a 'new and improved League of Nations, one that will actually work, really, if you just give us enough money and let us make all the rules'... Shocked   
  
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #15 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 5:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 4:08pm:
In case you haven't noticed, increases in economic liberty around the world for a long time now have made abject poverty, historically speaking, non-existent.
 


How callous and wrong can you get?

The lesson you americans refuse to learn is that socially responsible reform would save you billions in tax dollars.

There are several ways that would happen but I'll just name a few of the obvious.

1. Emphasis on rehabilitation in your prisons so fewer prisons.
2. Government run universal singlepayer health care.
3. Less military spending and fewer wars of aggression.
4. Less income disparity between the 1% and the other 99%.
5. Fill in the blank _______________

These are some of the main differences between your country and other successful and progressive countries of the world.

And you all know a lot more of them because you're all barking about them every day. There is a reason why you americans are complaining and I'm not! 

When you're ready to talk about it let me know.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #16 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 6:00pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
How callous and wrong can you get?



Very. You are a prime example.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #17 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 8:24pm
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Quote:
In 2009 the number of people who were in poverty was approaching 1960s levels that led to the national War on Poverty.[9] In 2011 extreme poverty in the United States, meaning households living on less than $2 per day before government benefits, was double 1996 levels at 1.5 million households, including 2.8 million children.


I started to look for some statistics for Africa to make the point but found I didn't need to go so far afield to make a point with an evil hateful, greedy pig like Jeff.

No wonder americans are so pissed off at their government and their lousy lot in life.

  
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The Opposition
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #18 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 9:14pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
In the real world, you eliminate government, then the liberals and others who can't take care of themselves are controlled by despots and become their armies.  Then good men need to band together and organize to defeat them.  Then we have government again.


I agree.

kaz wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Anarchists don't maximize liberty.  I am a libertarian to minimize government to maximize my liberty.  When making government smaller reduces my liberty, it is as small as possible.


You're only maximising practical liberty. All that matters is ideal liberty. I will demonstrate this.

Let's say almost every employee wants an offensive bumper sticker and almost every employer disallows it. We could make a regulation that employers can't discriminate on bumper stickers and since there are more employees than employers, it would, net, add practical choices to more people than it removed choices from.

But this is still wrong. It's the employer's job to give - or not - to whosoever he likes. It's up to him to decide, even if giving him this one choice costs 50 other people a choice in practice. Ideal liberty is preserved, which is based on voluntarism, even if people have fewer choices in practice.

It's not about results; it's about right and wrong. If you care more about results than you do right and wrong, you'd be chopping up people for their organs because that saves the most lives. Except that it doesn't matter what conditions people live in, how much practical freedom they have, or how alive or dead they are.

All. that. matters. is. right. and. wrong.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Anarchists are only a theoretical model
Reply #19 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 7:49am
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Don_G wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 8:24pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States


I started to look for some statistics for Africa to make the point but found I didn't need to go so far afield to make a point with an evil hateful, greedy pig like Jeff.

No wonder americans are so pissed off at their government and their lousy lot in life.

You are surprised that the War on Poverty has been a complete multi-trillion dollar failure? Or that more and more government and government interference into our economy has had bad results? Or that our increasingly 'progressive' government has buried us in regulations and debt and created a police state too?

You really can't imagine why many Americans aren't happy?

Oh, wait, you are saying that Americans living in grinding poverty (because they aren't working and have to rely on other people to make them rich by world standards) aren't happy because even with all the wealth transferred to them, they aren't rich by American standards.
  
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