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Don_G
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The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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https://www.rt.com/business/392573-hawaii-pass-bill-basic-income/

And so read the reasons why it's necessary. This is the beginning and other states are going to be paying attention.

The Hawaiian people have practically been shut out from living on their lands. They are workers who pay very high prices for the necessities of life and they just can't afford that. They live in poverty in shacks that are off the beaten path to keep it invisible to tourists.

This is Socially Responsible Capitalism finally coming to the US and the rest of the 49 others are not going to miss out on it! 
  
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Jeff
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:14pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
https://www.rt.com/business/392573-hawaii-pass-bill-basic-income/

And so read the reasons why it's necessary.
I think it's a fine idea for Hawaii to test, I just hope beyond hope that I won't have to pay for it, and I feel sorry for them.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #2 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:14pm:
I think it's a fine idea for Hawaii to test, I just hope beyond hope that I won't have to pay for it, and I feel sorry for them.


It's a cinch to work easily for Hawaii. There are relatively few workers as compared to the very wealthy 1%'ers. They could make all the native Hawaiians very wealthy if it's required.

Only a fair wage will be required so they can survive as human beings.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #3 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:22pm
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Don_G wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
It's a cinch to work easily for Hawaii. There are relatively few workers as compared to the very wealthy 1%'ers. They could make all the native Hawaiians very wealthy if it's required.

Only a fair wage will be required so they can survive as human beings.
Go for it, whatever it is you have in mind to improve people's lives.

Just please don't come to me to bail anybody out when it crappity smacks up as usual.

Hey, when it gets all crappity smacked up, we could just give Hawaii to China... I'd be OK with that... China is Great now, right?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #4 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:27pm
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If you're going to have redistribution, UBI is much better than welfare. Universal Basic Income doesn't allow the few who exploit and know how to abuse the system to get the most while everyone else at the same income level supports them.

I'm not saying it's right. I still oppose it. It's just a boatload more fair than welfare if welfare is the alternative.

In the neighbourhood I used to live in, the welfare people threw out so much stuff - dinette sets, TVs that were too small or too old, furniture, toys, clothes, shoes - and the working people including myself would pick through it for whatever they could find and use, because they didn't have that kind of disposable income to spend on crap they're only going to dispose of and replace next week.

Now it is true that the welfare people were using a combination of welfare and credit cards to do this, but what do they care? They're never going to be forced to pay for it. Or, I should say, they're never going to be forced to sacrifice or work in order to pay for it.
  

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Jeff
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #5 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 8:29pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
If you're going to have redistribution...
You will eventually crappity smack up your country.

Ask the People first... "Do you want us to take the bread from the mouths of working people and give it to whoever we think needs it most"?

Make it one of those majority rule votes you love so much.

Just take the vote about an honest question.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 8:29pm:
Ask the People first... "Do you want us to take the bread from the mouths of working people and give it to whoever we think needs it most"?


Most people will say yes rather than let a few genuinely needy people starve.

The real trouble is that once they've done that, it creates a culture of parasitism well beyond just giving to the genuinely needy.

You have a choice: Let a minuscule few people starve - and I admit private charity will help most of them - or have forced redistribution. Most people will pick forced redistribution because they can't stand the alternative.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:57pm
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UBI.  Free income to the non-productive.

What could possibly go wrong?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:41am
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:57pm:
UBI.  Free income to the non-productive.

What could possibly go wrong?
Half of my High School class, maybe more, would have never ever got a job anywhere. That would have cut the "revenue base" significantly... So would having the people who wanted to improve their lives moving out of the country. Cry

If the goal is to distribute poverty equally (except for the "leaders"), it should work well.
  
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ahhell
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Re: The First US State to Adopt Basic Income
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:41pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:57pm:
UBI.  Free income to the non-productive.

What could possibly go wrong?
That's the benefit of federalism.  We shall see what can possible go wrong in Hawaii and maybe a few other states. 

So, there is a real possibility that automation will essentially end work.  If we can have robot trucks and cars what can't be have robots doing?  If that comes to pass, what will libertarians propose as an alternative to having a bunch of starving people with nothing but time on their hands?


  
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